Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,445
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,445 contributions in session S6, 13 May 2026 – 12 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 May 2013

02 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Justice System
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s indication—as I understood it—that he would welcome cross-party discussions outwith the chamber to identify an appropriate way forward. That is a productive way to look at where we are and to identify future delivery in the community justice system.

I agree with many of the comments that have been made, particularly by Labour colleagues, that we would have benefited from having sight of a report on the responses, as we might have been better placed to offer strong and, I hope, educated views about the various options that are being considered.

I hope that, in the time left to me, I can bring a slightly different view to the debate. As regards the size of the problem that we are trying to address, the prison population—in spite of annual declarations from the Government—continues to rise. In 2011-12, the daily average was 8,178. In 2012-13, that rose to 8,300, and the forecast from those who have knowledge of such matters indicates that it is feasible that 9,500 prisoners will be in our prisons in 2020-21. There is an endemic, systemic problem that needs to be addressed, not only from the point of view of the human tragedy that it reflects, but in terms of the public investment and finance that are necessary to care for offenders in our system.

As regards reconviction rates, Audit Scotland reported—I think fairly—that progress on reoffending has been fairly static. Reconviction rates were 31.8 per cent in 1997-98, and 30.1 per cent in 2009-10—a reduction of 1.7. While that is welcome, it does not reflect progress, in the wider sense of that word.

At the same time, the Scottish Prison Service, the Government and community justice authorities spent £419 million in 2010-11 dealing with people convicted in the courts, but less than a third of that—£128 million—was spent on cutting reoffending. The prison population continues to increase and the cost to wider society of reoffending is estimated by Audit Scotland at about £3 billion per year—without even considering the impact on victims and witnesses.

Audit Scotland also noted that the reconviction rates are significantly affected by changes in the criminal justice system and by how the Scottish Government chooses to classify cases. That is illustrated by the fact that the reconviction rates do not include people who have reoffended after receiving early intervention measures such as police fixed-penalty notices and the like.

It is important that we have a debate and decide the way forward. It is a pressing issue. However, of the 8,300 prisoners that I mentioned earlier, we should bear it in mind that more than 70 per cent are classified as functionally illiterate and innumerate. Unless we find a way to deliver purposeful activity—I prefer to call it “activity with purpose”, and that purpose should be to educate and provide the facilities that will give prisoners opportunities as they leave the prison environment—we will always slam into a wall of self-defeat.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06433, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on redesigning the community justice system.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I know that the mood in the chamber is more sombre than usual, given events and the debate that has just taken place, but I am grateful that members have agr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Can the cabinet secretary clarify whether, if option B was chosen, consideration would be given to the fact that some local authorities that have areas of ve...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s closing comments. We will take up his offer of further discussion outwith the forum of parliamentary debate.There is genera...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I think that Lewis Macdonald will be aware that, with the new governor at Polmont prison, there is a new culture and determination that the expression “purpo...
Lewis Macdonald Lab
I am grateful for that intervention. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of many leaders in the Scottish Prison Service to achieving precisely that ch...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate because it gives Parliament the opportunity to examine why the current arrangement for strategic and operational responsibility with reg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes. We have a little bit of time in hand for interventions.15:30
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
This week, I had the good fortune to be briefed by Rob Strachan, the chief officer of Lothian and Borders community justice authority. It is important to sta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until ...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
It is clear that there is a fair degree of agreement across the chamber this afternoon. I associate myself with many of the comments that other members have ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s ...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Does Graeme Pearson agree that the meaningful and purposeful activity that he refers to can be delivered in so-called short-term sentences? Putting people in...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Yes. When a prisoner is in custody 24/7, there are always avenues for delivery, if there is the will to deliver, the necessary support, the health interventi...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
Recorded crime is at a 37-year low, and the number of first-time offenders is falling. However, around half of the number who receive a short custodial sent...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
Perhaps I am the only one—I do not know—but I am pleased to speak in the debate. I take on board what everyone has said, but the more we discuss the communit...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Today’s debate seems premature given that the consultation finished only two days ago and we are awaiting the responses and conclusions. However, like other ...
Sandra White SNP
Perhaps Mary Fee will be able to educate me on the CJAs. She said that various members of CJAs had contacted her. Would she say that the CJAs work differentl...
Mary Fee Lab
I think that CJAs work in broadly the same manner in different local authorities. I am perhaps fortunate in that I was a local authority member before I came...
Christine Grahame SNP
Can I tempt Mary Fee with option D?
Mary Fee Lab
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.Before the debate, I had the opport...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
It has been highlighted already that the total economic and social cost of reoffending in Scotland is about £3 billion a year. According to the Audit Scotlan...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community jus...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Annabel Goldie, who has six minutes or thereby.16:36
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome both the Scottish Government’s recent consultation and this afternoon’s debate on redesigning the community justice system. That matters not only b...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I reiterate what other members have said about the timing of today’s debate. Two days after the closure of the consultation is perhaps a little too soon to d...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Did the member not listen when we said quite clearly that the proposal—whether it is A, B or C—would not come into effect until the spring of 2016? Given tha...
Jenny Marra Lab
Fanciful or not, those are not my words but the words of a leader of a community justice authority, and they are a response to the cabinet secretary’s motion...