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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 May 2013

02 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Justice System
Chisholm, Malcolm Lab Edinburgh Northern and Leith Watch on SPTV
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until all the written responses were available to members. It is particularly unfortunate for someone such as me, as I have no background or experience in the area and I would have much preferred to read the views of those who do.

I was a minister when the community justice authorities were set up, but it is the nature of being a minister to plough one’s own field. I remember that there were debates at that time—similar to those that we are having now—about the tension and the choice between a central system and more local variation. In a way, we are repeating some of the debates that we had then.

I recognise the importance of the policy area. Dealing with the rehabilitation of offenders and stopping reoffending are critical to justice policy. Although I am in no way an expert, I have been inspired by some of the people who work in the area. Margaret Mitchell mentioned Circle, which is an organisation that is based in my constituency. It has remarkable success rates in stopping reoffending, and I will want to listen to what it has to say about that. I have also spoken a couple of times in recent months to the violence reduction unit, which is prioritising such work with offenders, particularly on employability, as a way of cutting down reoffending. There are leaders in the field to whom we will want to listen.

Although there is no agreement about the solutions, there is unanimity about the nature of the problems, and most people agree with what Margaret Mitchell said about the cluttered and fragmented landscape, which was a key theme of the Christie report. Everybody also seems to agree that structures are not the be-all and end-all—that is absolutely right. Equally, some changes to the structures are required, which is why three options are before us.

What are the problems? They have been well described in the Audit Scotland report and the Angiolini report, which both refer to a lack of leadership and accountability and to problems with funding. Some of those problems relate to the short-term nature of the funding, which Margaret Mitchell referred to, but both reports also say that funding is based on activity rather than outcomes. A lot of the funding is based on the historical allocation of funding, and there is the issue that councillors sometimes—understandably—favour their own local authority.

Perhaps the strongest problem is the inconsistency of service. I was particularly struck by the observation in the Audit Scotland report that, because some services in prisons are funded by local authorities, some prisoners get a service while others do not. That is a stark example of localism going too far. Audit Scotland also emphasises the importance of employability and the great variations in the availability of employability services. Another issue is poor access to purposeful activities in prison, which our amendment highlights.

On where we go from here, I agree with the principles that are set out on pages 15 and 16 of the Government’s consultation document. They include the need for strategic direction and leadership; the emphasis on prevention and early intervention; the desirability of having effective local partnerships; the need for strategic commissioning; and, of course, an approach that involves evidence-based policies that are based on an analysis of need. We all agree with those, but where does that lead us to on the options?

All the options have their attractions and disadvantages. Option A would at least avoid structural upheaval, which is often a good principle to follow, as there is an advantage in having a degree of continuity. Option A suggests that, if we have more strategic leadership, give the CJAs strategic commissioning powers and ensure that partners have a statutory duty to be involved, that will improve the present system. Option A should certainly be looked at seriously.

Option C is championed by the Angiolini report. In itself, that is quite a strong recommendation, given that most of the recommendations of that excellent report have been accepted without controversy. Clearly, in championing a single community justice service, option C is a lot more controversial, but the advantages that are highlighted are that the combination of strategic and operational responsibility would provide clearer lines of accountability, more consistency and potentially a greater quality of service. There would also be the potential to roll out models of good practice. There is a lot to recommend that option.

However, we should not forget option B or the good work that is being done at local council level. We also need to look at the arguments for that. It is attractive in principle to have local authorities in the driving seat, although it can be problematic in practice.

In my final minute, I will give an example of good practice that is being carried out by criminal justice services in Edinburgh. Launched in May last year, the break the cycle project takes old and unwanted bikes and renovates them. The bikes are then donated free to community organisations, youth groups, other interested organisations and children. Crucially, the project works with offenders who are on community payback orders as a direct alternative to going to prison. As the City of Edinburgh Council highlights,

“Experience shows that if an offender is carrying out work that they have an interest in, they are more likely to successfully complete the order. Most of the people on these orders are young men under 25, many of whom have an interest in bikes and cycling.”

The council’s criminal justice workers, who have been trained to help in cycle maintenance, are on hand to monitor and help in the process. I highlight that as an example of the good practice and good work that local councils are doing on the ground.

That example also highlights the central importance of job readiness, job opportunities and the employability agenda. Whatever solution we come up with, I hope that employability will be at the centre. For example, for what will be a really good event that will take place over three days at the end of this month, the violence reduction unit is bringing over from America people who work with offenders on helping them to get ready for the jobs market. That should be right at the centre of our agenda, and I certainly hope that I will be able to attend one of those events.

15:43

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06433, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on redesigning the community justice system.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I know that the mood in the chamber is more sombre than usual, given events and the debate that has just taken place, but I am grateful that members have agr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Can the cabinet secretary clarify whether, if option B was chosen, consideration would be given to the fact that some local authorities that have areas of ve...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s closing comments. We will take up his offer of further discussion outwith the forum of parliamentary debate.There is genera...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I think that Lewis Macdonald will be aware that, with the new governor at Polmont prison, there is a new culture and determination that the expression “purpo...
Lewis Macdonald Lab
I am grateful for that intervention. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of many leaders in the Scottish Prison Service to achieving precisely that ch...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate because it gives Parliament the opportunity to examine why the current arrangement for strategic and operational responsibility with reg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes. We have a little bit of time in hand for interventions.15:30
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
This week, I had the good fortune to be briefed by Rob Strachan, the chief officer of Lothian and Borders community justice authority. It is important to sta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until ...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
It is clear that there is a fair degree of agreement across the chamber this afternoon. I associate myself with many of the comments that other members have ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s ...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Does Graeme Pearson agree that the meaningful and purposeful activity that he refers to can be delivered in so-called short-term sentences? Putting people in...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Yes. When a prisoner is in custody 24/7, there are always avenues for delivery, if there is the will to deliver, the necessary support, the health interventi...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
Recorded crime is at a 37-year low, and the number of first-time offenders is falling. However, around half of the number who receive a short custodial sent...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
Perhaps I am the only one—I do not know—but I am pleased to speak in the debate. I take on board what everyone has said, but the more we discuss the communit...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Today’s debate seems premature given that the consultation finished only two days ago and we are awaiting the responses and conclusions. However, like other ...
Sandra White SNP
Perhaps Mary Fee will be able to educate me on the CJAs. She said that various members of CJAs had contacted her. Would she say that the CJAs work differentl...
Mary Fee Lab
I think that CJAs work in broadly the same manner in different local authorities. I am perhaps fortunate in that I was a local authority member before I came...
Christine Grahame SNP
Can I tempt Mary Fee with option D?
Mary Fee Lab
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.Before the debate, I had the opport...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
It has been highlighted already that the total economic and social cost of reoffending in Scotland is about £3 billion a year. According to the Audit Scotlan...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community jus...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Annabel Goldie, who has six minutes or thereby.16:36
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome both the Scottish Government’s recent consultation and this afternoon’s debate on redesigning the community justice system. That matters not only b...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I reiterate what other members have said about the timing of today’s debate. Two days after the closure of the consultation is perhaps a little too soon to d...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Did the member not listen when we said quite clearly that the proposal—whether it is A, B or C—would not come into effect until the spring of 2016? Given tha...
Jenny Marra Lab
Fanciful or not, those are not my words but the words of a leader of a community justice authority, and they are a response to the cabinet secretary’s motion...