Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 02 May 2013
02 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Justice System
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result of social and economic conditions. The detail will have to be sorted out, but it is self-evident that areas that are under the greatest pressure have the greatest needs and will have to be given the most appropriate level of resource to deal with those needs.
Option C is a single-service model. CJAs would be abolished and a new national, social work-led service for community justice would be established. The Angiolini commission recommended that approach. The new service would be separate from but would sit alongside the Scottish Prison Service. It would subsume the Risk Management Authority, which is a non-departmental public body. Therefore, option C would not create an additional public body.
Any new arrangements will need to be achieved largely through reconfiguration of existing resources—currently £111 million per year. We will undertake detailed financial work on the cost of the different options through liaising with local authorities and CJAs. That work will inform a final decision on the way forward.
We recognise that a wide range of professionals, organisations and individuals have an interest in how we take this forward. That is why, as well as publishing the consultation paper, we held 13 consultation events across Scotland to seek views on future arrangements. More than 550 people attended the events, including criminal justice social workers, people from the third sector, CJA officers and conveners, police, prison staff, health workers, addiction workers, local authority staff, housing officials, members of the public and ex-offenders.
I have been working constructively with COSLA, ADSW and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers. I have met third sector representatives to hear their views on weaknesses in the current system and possible solutions. All contributions have been immensely valuable and it is clear that the issue matters greatly to many people.
I expect to make in late 2013 an announcement on the way forward. Subject to a suitable legislative vehicle and parliamentary approval, provisional implementation will take place from 2016.
This debate provides an opportunity for members to contribute to the discussion. Although progress has been made on tackling reoffending, it is clear that significant areas for improvement remain. We need stronger leadership, clearer accountability arrangements and services that are based on evidence of what works. It is time to be ambitious and to put the needs of victims, communities and offenders and their families at the forefront of our minds, so that we reduce reoffending further and make a positive difference to the lives of the people of Scotland.
I do not accept the Labour amendment, but I say to Labour members that it covers many matters that I think we accept, and we will be happy to hear their views and enter into discussions outwith the chamber. At the end of the day, this matter is not ideological or party driven; it is about making our communities safer. I am grateful for the opportunity to move the motion.
I move,
That the Parliament acknowledges that solid progress has been made in tackling reoffending and commends the work of local community justice practitioners in achieving this; notes the recent reports from Audit Scotland and the Commission on Women Offenders that highlight shortcomings in the community justice system; further notes the publication of the Scottish Government’s consultation document, Redesigning the Community Justice System, and looks forward to an analysis of the responses; agrees that the status quo is untenable, and recognises the importance of continuing to work constructively with COSLA, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and the Association of Directors of Social Work to put in place arrangements that support strong leadership and robust accountability and bring together the public and voluntary sectors to deliver better outcomes for victims, communities and offenders and their families.
15:13
Option C is a single-service model. CJAs would be abolished and a new national, social work-led service for community justice would be established. The Angiolini commission recommended that approach. The new service would be separate from but would sit alongside the Scottish Prison Service. It would subsume the Risk Management Authority, which is a non-departmental public body. Therefore, option C would not create an additional public body.
Any new arrangements will need to be achieved largely through reconfiguration of existing resources—currently £111 million per year. We will undertake detailed financial work on the cost of the different options through liaising with local authorities and CJAs. That work will inform a final decision on the way forward.
We recognise that a wide range of professionals, organisations and individuals have an interest in how we take this forward. That is why, as well as publishing the consultation paper, we held 13 consultation events across Scotland to seek views on future arrangements. More than 550 people attended the events, including criminal justice social workers, people from the third sector, CJA officers and conveners, police, prison staff, health workers, addiction workers, local authority staff, housing officials, members of the public and ex-offenders.
I have been working constructively with COSLA, ADSW and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers. I have met third sector representatives to hear their views on weaknesses in the current system and possible solutions. All contributions have been immensely valuable and it is clear that the issue matters greatly to many people.
I expect to make in late 2013 an announcement on the way forward. Subject to a suitable legislative vehicle and parliamentary approval, provisional implementation will take place from 2016.
This debate provides an opportunity for members to contribute to the discussion. Although progress has been made on tackling reoffending, it is clear that significant areas for improvement remain. We need stronger leadership, clearer accountability arrangements and services that are based on evidence of what works. It is time to be ambitious and to put the needs of victims, communities and offenders and their families at the forefront of our minds, so that we reduce reoffending further and make a positive difference to the lives of the people of Scotland.
I do not accept the Labour amendment, but I say to Labour members that it covers many matters that I think we accept, and we will be happy to hear their views and enter into discussions outwith the chamber. At the end of the day, this matter is not ideological or party driven; it is about making our communities safer. I am grateful for the opportunity to move the motion.
I move,
That the Parliament acknowledges that solid progress has been made in tackling reoffending and commends the work of local community justice practitioners in achieving this; notes the recent reports from Audit Scotland and the Commission on Women Offenders that highlight shortcomings in the community justice system; further notes the publication of the Scottish Government’s consultation document, Redesigning the Community Justice System, and looks forward to an analysis of the responses; agrees that the status quo is untenable, and recognises the importance of continuing to work constructively with COSLA, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and the Association of Directors of Social Work to put in place arrangements that support strong leadership and robust accountability and bring together the public and voluntary sectors to deliver better outcomes for victims, communities and offenders and their families.
15:13
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06433, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on redesigning the community justice system.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I know that the mood in the chamber is more sombre than usual, given events and the debate that has just taken place, but I am grateful that members have agr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Can the cabinet secretary clarify whether, if option B was chosen, consideration would be given to the fact that some local authorities that have areas of ve...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s closing comments. We will take up his offer of further discussion outwith the forum of parliamentary debate.There is genera...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I think that Lewis Macdonald will be aware that, with the new governor at Polmont prison, there is a new culture and determination that the expression “purpo...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am grateful for that intervention. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of many leaders in the Scottish Prison Service to achieving precisely that ch...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the debate because it gives Parliament the opportunity to examine why the current arrangement for strategic and operational responsibility with reg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes. We have a little bit of time in hand for interventions.15:30
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
This week, I had the good fortune to be briefed by Rob Strachan, the chief officer of Lothian and Borders community justice authority. It is important to sta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until ...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
SNP
It is clear that there is a fair degree of agreement across the chamber this afternoon. I associate myself with many of the comments that other members have ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s ...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Does Graeme Pearson agree that the meaningful and purposeful activity that he refers to can be delivered in so-called short-term sentences? Putting people in...
Graeme Pearson
Lab
Yes. When a prisoner is in custody 24/7, there are always avenues for delivery, if there is the will to deliver, the necessary support, the health interventi...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Recorded crime is at a 37-year low, and the number of first-time offenders is falling. However, around half of the number who receive a short custodial sent...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
Perhaps I am the only one—I do not know—but I am pleased to speak in the debate. I take on board what everyone has said, but the more we discuss the communit...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Today’s debate seems premature given that the consultation finished only two days ago and we are awaiting the responses and conclusions. However, like other ...
Sandra White
SNP
Perhaps Mary Fee will be able to educate me on the CJAs. She said that various members of CJAs had contacted her. Would she say that the CJAs work differentl...
Mary Fee
Lab
I think that CJAs work in broadly the same manner in different local authorities. I am perhaps fortunate in that I was a local authority member before I came...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Can I tempt Mary Fee with option D?
Mary Fee
Lab
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.Before the debate, I had the opport...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
It has been highlighted already that the total economic and social cost of reoffending in Scotland is about £3 billion a year. According to the Audit Scotlan...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community jus...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Annabel Goldie, who has six minutes or thereby.16:36
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome both the Scottish Government’s recent consultation and this afternoon’s debate on redesigning the community justice system. That matters not only b...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I reiterate what other members have said about the timing of today’s debate. Two days after the closure of the consultation is perhaps a little too soon to d...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Did the member not listen when we said quite clearly that the proposal—whether it is A, B or C—would not come into effect until the spring of 2016? Given tha...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Fanciful or not, those are not my words but the words of a leader of a community justice authority, and they are a response to the cabinet secretary’s motion...