Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 19 March 2013
19 Mar 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Iraq Invasion (10th Anniversary)
Listening to the speeches of John Lamont and Willie Rennie, I was struck by the seriousness with which they have engaged in reflecting after 10 years. I am deeply disappointed that the First Minister has chosen simply to turn this into an argument for independence. He made the point himself. He said that the argument for independence is that we would not have done what happened 10 years ago. The issues are far more serious than that.
The 10th anniversary of the start of the Iraq war is an opportunity to reflect on many issues: the bravery and sacrifice of our armed forces; the impact of conflict on civilians; the role that our international institutions can and should play in tackling conflict in the world; and how we protect the world’s citizens from fascist and despotic rule.
It must, too, be an opportunity to applaud those who now seek the reconstruction of Iraq and an opportunity for us in this Parliament to commit to do what we can to support our armed forces and our veterans, who too often bear the mental scars of time in conflict.
Iraq is one of the most difficult issues that I have ever had to address and, frankly, I did not require a debate in this place to reflect on it. As a politician, someone interested in how political power is used and abused and someone who, like everyone in here, yearns for a more stable and equal world, I believe that we must reflect on the lessons of Iraq.
I am genuinely disappointed that the First Minister did not take the option of a debate without a motion, so that we could come together genuinely to wrestle with the challenges that the Iraq war and the important issues of intervention and tackling human rights abuses and fascism present. The Labour party will abstain from the vote on the motion and the amendments.
In preparation for the debate, among other things I read again the debate in the Scottish Parliament in early 2003. In reading my speech, I was struck by the troubled view that I had about what option should be taken. That uncertainty was reflected in debates across the country; it was not particular to this place. The debate at that time divided families—it divided mine; it divided parties, although not, apparently, the SNP; and it divided communities. That was a division not between the peace lover and the warmonger, the good and the bad, the pro-Blair and the anti-Blair, the pro-American and the anti-American; it was a division about what, on balance, people believed to be the better thing to do—not the right thing or the wrong thing, but the better thing to do in the most difficult of circumstances. I have always respected the views of those who did not agree with me then. I respected their views then and I respect them now. I ask only that people believe that those who in the end supported the war did so with the best of motives and not the worst.
The 10th anniversary of the start of the Iraq war is an opportunity to reflect on many issues: the bravery and sacrifice of our armed forces; the impact of conflict on civilians; the role that our international institutions can and should play in tackling conflict in the world; and how we protect the world’s citizens from fascist and despotic rule.
It must, too, be an opportunity to applaud those who now seek the reconstruction of Iraq and an opportunity for us in this Parliament to commit to do what we can to support our armed forces and our veterans, who too often bear the mental scars of time in conflict.
Iraq is one of the most difficult issues that I have ever had to address and, frankly, I did not require a debate in this place to reflect on it. As a politician, someone interested in how political power is used and abused and someone who, like everyone in here, yearns for a more stable and equal world, I believe that we must reflect on the lessons of Iraq.
I am genuinely disappointed that the First Minister did not take the option of a debate without a motion, so that we could come together genuinely to wrestle with the challenges that the Iraq war and the important issues of intervention and tackling human rights abuses and fascism present. The Labour party will abstain from the vote on the motion and the amendments.
In preparation for the debate, among other things I read again the debate in the Scottish Parliament in early 2003. In reading my speech, I was struck by the troubled view that I had about what option should be taken. That uncertainty was reflected in debates across the country; it was not particular to this place. The debate at that time divided families—it divided mine; it divided parties, although not, apparently, the SNP; and it divided communities. That was a division not between the peace lover and the warmonger, the good and the bad, the pro-Blair and the anti-Blair, the pro-American and the anti-American; it was a division about what, on balance, people believed to be the better thing to do—not the right thing or the wrong thing, but the better thing to do in the most difficult of circumstances. I have always respected the views of those who did not agree with me then. I respected their views then and I respect them now. I ask only that people believe that those who in the end supported the war did so with the best of motives and not the worst.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05981, in the name of Alex Salmond, on 10 years on from the invasion of Iraq.14:22
The First Minister (Alex Salmond)
SNP
In discussing the motion, we should reflect that tomorrow marks the 10th anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq. As we consider the lessons and implicat...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Although I agree that no Parliament should lend a hand to that, does the First Minister agree that a great number of people whose loyalty was found to be too...
The First Minister
SNP
I basically believe that to be case.
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
I will answer Margo MacDonald first and then I will gladly give way to Johann Lamont.I was not in this place; I was in the House of Commons. I know people wh...
Johann Lamont
Lab
The First Minister ought not to describe other people’s motives in relation to how they vote in this place. I say for the record that when I voted as I did, ...
The First Minister
SNP
I read the debate. I remember that, according to the record, Johann Lamont was first up to advocate the war and question those who were arguing against it. P...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
No.We should reflect on the best way to fulfil our obligation, as good international citizens, to participate fully on the world stage—Interruption. I hear t...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Perhaps the First Minister, in his tone of considered reflection on the events of the past 10 years, will tell us why he believes that an independent Scotlan...
The First Minister
SNP
Because, as we know, the Prime Minister of the day distorted the intelligence that he had. We know that intelligence was presented that we were 45 minutes fr...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I begin by saying what barely needs to be said and pledging our unwavering support for UK personnel—military and peacekeeping—who have served and continue to...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I will give way later, but I want to make some progress.I state at the outset that 10 years on, the situation in Iraq is far from ideal. Violence levels rema...
Jim Eadie (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member is not giving way; resume your seat.
John Lamont
Con
For too long, international words of condemnation were unmatched by meaningful international action; for too long, the Iraqi people suffered under the very s...
The First Minister
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I will give way in a minute; let me finish my point. For too long, Kurds in the north and Shias in the south continued to fight a tyrant whom we ourselves sh...
The First Minister
SNP
Some of us who have consistently opposed Saddam Hussein’s murderous regime over the years remember that Tory ministers visited him to talk about arms months ...
John Lamont
Con
I did not say that. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
John Lamont
Con
I do not dispute that the situation is far from ideal today, but it is improving and it is better than it was. If it were a choice between Saddam Hussein and...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I give way to the minister.
Shona Robison
SNP
Is the member able to tell us who armed Saddam Hussein to use those weapons against his own people? Would he like to tell us that?
John Lamont
Con
I am sure that Saddam Hussein had various sources of weaponry. That does not make it right that those actions were allowed to continue for as long as they we...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
When the sirens whined, we dived to the floor, struggling with our flak jackets and helmets, yet the local politicians carried on as if nothing had happened,...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Listening to the speeches of John Lamont and Willie Rennie, I was struck by the seriousness with which they have engaged in reflecting after 10 years. I am d...