Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 19 March 2013
19 Mar 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Iraq Invasion (10th Anniversary)
I am sure that Saddam Hussein had various sources of weaponry. That does not make it right that those actions were allowed to continue for as long as they were.
Iraq had been harbouring and giving aid to international terrorists, and it was a regime that paid bounties on the heads of Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel. It was a regime that had repeatedly used weapons of mass destruction on its own people as well as those in other territories; that had in the past actively attempted to conceal its weaponry; and that had repeatedly and flagrantly flouted internationally imposed sanctions on nuclear and non-nuclear proliferation.
When it came to weapons of mass destruction, Iraq was a latent, if not a patent, threat, but we can now say with certainty that it is no longer a permanent one.
Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was a regime that was no longer entitled to the benefit of the doubt, and it was a country whose future could not be a matter of indifference to us, as it seemed to be for some members in this chamber.
Intervention was not only necessary—not only essential—but, because of Saddam Hussein’s own record and decisions, inevitable. We brought to justice one of the world’s greatest war criminals. We put him, as well as the perpetrators of the Anfal campaign, on trial, in a dock, and brought justice to the Iraqi people. Do the Scottish National Party and Alex Salmond think that that is nothing? We brought back to Iraq civil liberties, basic human rights and the entitlement to a Government that is elected by the people to serve the people. Do the SNP and Alex Salmond think that that is nothing?
Most of all, those of us who supported the intervention in Iraq, got to see what Christopher Hitchens described as
“what a people look like when it has been liberated”
and allowed to flourish. He said:
“there is no experience like that, no experience like the look on the face of a people who are no longer the property of a single party state.”
Only yesterday, I heard the words of Ali Al-Rikabi, a former soldier in the Iraqi army, who said:
“What took place in 2003 was a good thing ... Iraqis were crying for anyone to come and help them”.
We came forward. We no longer stood back and watched. We answered the cries of people such as that former Iraqi soldier. That is something that we can be proud of.
Some may not be so optimistic but, as I mentioned, what we saw in the years following the liberation of the Kurds from life at the mercy of Saddam Hussein, we are beginning to see now—slowly, but surely—in the rest of Iraq.
The First Minister has made much of the blunders, the mistakes and the catastrophes that we have seen—that we have made—in Iraq since 2003, none of which I deny, and most of which Iraqi citizens know more about than we could ever dare to imagine. However, none of them impeaches the principle and the fundamental idea that this was a necessary war, that it was an inevitable war and that, most of all, it was a just war.
I move amendment S4M-05981.2, to leave out from “; notes” to end and insert:
“, including 179 British armed forces personnel and MOD civilians; notes the human rights abuses exhaustively documented by the UN as well as other institutions that took place in Iraq under the rule of Saddam Hussein; notes the estimated 180,000 Kurds killed as part of the Anfal campaign, a systematic ethnic cleansing programme that took place between 1987 and 1989 under the orders of Saddam Hussein; notes the state killing of an estimated 100,000 Shia Muslims in the southern provinces during the 1991 uprising; notes the repeated violations by Saddam Hussein and his regime of numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, specifically Resolutions 678, 687 and 1441; believes that Saddam Hussein’s regime was incompatible with basic democratic or humanitarian principles, and restates Scotland’s commitment to supporting the development of a stable, prosperous and democratic future for all Iraqi people.”
14:48
Iraq had been harbouring and giving aid to international terrorists, and it was a regime that paid bounties on the heads of Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel. It was a regime that had repeatedly used weapons of mass destruction on its own people as well as those in other territories; that had in the past actively attempted to conceal its weaponry; and that had repeatedly and flagrantly flouted internationally imposed sanctions on nuclear and non-nuclear proliferation.
When it came to weapons of mass destruction, Iraq was a latent, if not a patent, threat, but we can now say with certainty that it is no longer a permanent one.
Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was a regime that was no longer entitled to the benefit of the doubt, and it was a country whose future could not be a matter of indifference to us, as it seemed to be for some members in this chamber.
Intervention was not only necessary—not only essential—but, because of Saddam Hussein’s own record and decisions, inevitable. We brought to justice one of the world’s greatest war criminals. We put him, as well as the perpetrators of the Anfal campaign, on trial, in a dock, and brought justice to the Iraqi people. Do the Scottish National Party and Alex Salmond think that that is nothing? We brought back to Iraq civil liberties, basic human rights and the entitlement to a Government that is elected by the people to serve the people. Do the SNP and Alex Salmond think that that is nothing?
Most of all, those of us who supported the intervention in Iraq, got to see what Christopher Hitchens described as
“what a people look like when it has been liberated”
and allowed to flourish. He said:
“there is no experience like that, no experience like the look on the face of a people who are no longer the property of a single party state.”
Only yesterday, I heard the words of Ali Al-Rikabi, a former soldier in the Iraqi army, who said:
“What took place in 2003 was a good thing ... Iraqis were crying for anyone to come and help them”.
We came forward. We no longer stood back and watched. We answered the cries of people such as that former Iraqi soldier. That is something that we can be proud of.
Some may not be so optimistic but, as I mentioned, what we saw in the years following the liberation of the Kurds from life at the mercy of Saddam Hussein, we are beginning to see now—slowly, but surely—in the rest of Iraq.
The First Minister has made much of the blunders, the mistakes and the catastrophes that we have seen—that we have made—in Iraq since 2003, none of which I deny, and most of which Iraqi citizens know more about than we could ever dare to imagine. However, none of them impeaches the principle and the fundamental idea that this was a necessary war, that it was an inevitable war and that, most of all, it was a just war.
I move amendment S4M-05981.2, to leave out from “; notes” to end and insert:
“, including 179 British armed forces personnel and MOD civilians; notes the human rights abuses exhaustively documented by the UN as well as other institutions that took place in Iraq under the rule of Saddam Hussein; notes the estimated 180,000 Kurds killed as part of the Anfal campaign, a systematic ethnic cleansing programme that took place between 1987 and 1989 under the orders of Saddam Hussein; notes the state killing of an estimated 100,000 Shia Muslims in the southern provinces during the 1991 uprising; notes the repeated violations by Saddam Hussein and his regime of numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, specifically Resolutions 678, 687 and 1441; believes that Saddam Hussein’s regime was incompatible with basic democratic or humanitarian principles, and restates Scotland’s commitment to supporting the development of a stable, prosperous and democratic future for all Iraqi people.”
14:48
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05981, in the name of Alex Salmond, on 10 years on from the invasion of Iraq.14:22
The First Minister (Alex Salmond)
SNP
In discussing the motion, we should reflect that tomorrow marks the 10th anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq. As we consider the lessons and implicat...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Although I agree that no Parliament should lend a hand to that, does the First Minister agree that a great number of people whose loyalty was found to be too...
The First Minister
SNP
I basically believe that to be case.
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
I will answer Margo MacDonald first and then I will gladly give way to Johann Lamont.I was not in this place; I was in the House of Commons. I know people wh...
Johann Lamont
Lab
The First Minister ought not to describe other people’s motives in relation to how they vote in this place. I say for the record that when I voted as I did, ...
The First Minister
SNP
I read the debate. I remember that, according to the record, Johann Lamont was first up to advocate the war and question those who were arguing against it. P...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
No.We should reflect on the best way to fulfil our obligation, as good international citizens, to participate fully on the world stage—Interruption. I hear t...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Perhaps the First Minister, in his tone of considered reflection on the events of the past 10 years, will tell us why he believes that an independent Scotlan...
The First Minister
SNP
Because, as we know, the Prime Minister of the day distorted the intelligence that he had. We know that intelligence was presented that we were 45 minutes fr...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I begin by saying what barely needs to be said and pledging our unwavering support for UK personnel—military and peacekeeping—who have served and continue to...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I will give way later, but I want to make some progress.I state at the outset that 10 years on, the situation in Iraq is far from ideal. Violence levels rema...
Jim Eadie (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member is not giving way; resume your seat.
John Lamont
Con
For too long, international words of condemnation were unmatched by meaningful international action; for too long, the Iraqi people suffered under the very s...
The First Minister
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I will give way in a minute; let me finish my point. For too long, Kurds in the north and Shias in the south continued to fight a tyrant whom we ourselves sh...
The First Minister
SNP
Some of us who have consistently opposed Saddam Hussein’s murderous regime over the years remember that Tory ministers visited him to talk about arms months ...
John Lamont
Con
I did not say that. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
John Lamont
Con
I do not dispute that the situation is far from ideal today, but it is improving and it is better than it was. If it were a choice between Saddam Hussein and...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I give way to the minister.
Shona Robison
SNP
Is the member able to tell us who armed Saddam Hussein to use those weapons against his own people? Would he like to tell us that?
John Lamont
Con
I am sure that Saddam Hussein had various sources of weaponry. That does not make it right that those actions were allowed to continue for as long as they we...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
When the sirens whined, we dived to the floor, struggling with our flak jackets and helmets, yet the local politicians carried on as if nothing had happened,...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Listening to the speeches of John Lamont and Willie Rennie, I was struck by the seriousness with which they have engaged in reflecting after 10 years. I am d...