Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 April 2013
24 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Access to Justice
When we look at the results of the elections, it seems that the people of Scotland trust the Scottish National Party, rather than the Labour Party. We need no lessons from Hanzala Malik.
The Scottish Court Service has stated that the closures will affect 5 per cent of overall court business. It also points out that the three High Court centres hear about 80 per cent of all cases. Indeed, the chief executive of the service has said that it is
“confident that more than enough capacity exists to deal with current and future volumes of business.”
I am sure that the Justice Committee will explore that in more detail when it takes evidence on the issue.
I will take up Margaret Mitchell’s points about overstretched courts and present some facts. Let us look at the numbers. The number of summary complaints registered at the sheriff courts has declined from more than 8,000 per month to fewer than 6,000 per month. The number of summary complaints registered at the sheriff and JP courts together has shown a continual and consistent decline. The number of High Court indictments registered has declined from just under 90 per month to just over 60 per month. Margaret Mitchell will admit that there is, perhaps, room for manoeuvre and, when we see the evidence, improvement.
One recommendation concerns using information technology to make the experience more effective. We all know of the huge advances that we have made in recent years and the opportunity that those advances present. A few years ago, not only I but other members would never have imagined that we would be able to talk directly to somebody in, for example, Malawi. In certain circumstances, as the convener of the cross-party group on Palestine, I have had videolinks with people in the West Bank, have been able to ask them questions and have heard them answer.
Every one of us would admit that we can develop such technology in the Court Service. Of course we must ensure that it is used only in specific areas of the Court Service, but we should certainly be looking into it. I think that it would benefit absolutely everyone.
Among the responses to the initial consultation, there was a very positive response to the increase in the use of technology, particularly in relation to the administrative side of things and the registration of cases. There was also a positive response to the idea of allowing certain court appearances to be made by live videolink.
As part of the Scottish Government’s making justice work programme in the north of Scotland, work is nearing completion on the introduction of a new secure live-link videoconferencing network covering six northern courts and four other locations. Very importantly for the justice system, that will give criminal justice organisations the opportunity to use the technology for some cases, instead of participants having to travel to court. Members would all agree that those are positive possibilities, which we should embrace.
As I said, we all recognise the need for reform. We all certainly recognise that the UK Government is making huge cuts in Scotland. We all have a responsibility to spell out how we will deal with them.
With that in mind, I must admit to being slightly confused by the Labour Party’s motion. It appears that Labour recognises the need for reform, and the motion highlights Labour’s opposition to the closure of some courts, but does that mean that it recognises the need to close the courts that the motion does not mention? That seems a wee bit odd. Perhaps the mover of the motion would like to take the opportunity to clarify the position—or perhaps not. I cannot thank Lewis Macdonald for any clarification; if he does not wish to intervene, he can perhaps ensure that the point is dealt with in the closing speech.
The Scottish Court Service has stated that the closures will affect 5 per cent of overall court business. It also points out that the three High Court centres hear about 80 per cent of all cases. Indeed, the chief executive of the service has said that it is
“confident that more than enough capacity exists to deal with current and future volumes of business.”
I am sure that the Justice Committee will explore that in more detail when it takes evidence on the issue.
I will take up Margaret Mitchell’s points about overstretched courts and present some facts. Let us look at the numbers. The number of summary complaints registered at the sheriff courts has declined from more than 8,000 per month to fewer than 6,000 per month. The number of summary complaints registered at the sheriff and JP courts together has shown a continual and consistent decline. The number of High Court indictments registered has declined from just under 90 per month to just over 60 per month. Margaret Mitchell will admit that there is, perhaps, room for manoeuvre and, when we see the evidence, improvement.
One recommendation concerns using information technology to make the experience more effective. We all know of the huge advances that we have made in recent years and the opportunity that those advances present. A few years ago, not only I but other members would never have imagined that we would be able to talk directly to somebody in, for example, Malawi. In certain circumstances, as the convener of the cross-party group on Palestine, I have had videolinks with people in the West Bank, have been able to ask them questions and have heard them answer.
Every one of us would admit that we can develop such technology in the Court Service. Of course we must ensure that it is used only in specific areas of the Court Service, but we should certainly be looking into it. I think that it would benefit absolutely everyone.
Among the responses to the initial consultation, there was a very positive response to the increase in the use of technology, particularly in relation to the administrative side of things and the registration of cases. There was also a positive response to the idea of allowing certain court appearances to be made by live videolink.
As part of the Scottish Government’s making justice work programme in the north of Scotland, work is nearing completion on the introduction of a new secure live-link videoconferencing network covering six northern courts and four other locations. Very importantly for the justice system, that will give criminal justice organisations the opportunity to use the technology for some cases, instead of participants having to travel to court. Members would all agree that those are positive possibilities, which we should embrace.
As I said, we all recognise the need for reform. We all certainly recognise that the UK Government is making huge cuts in Scotland. We all have a responsibility to spell out how we will deal with them.
With that in mind, I must admit to being slightly confused by the Labour Party’s motion. It appears that Labour recognises the need for reform, and the motion highlights Labour’s opposition to the closure of some courts, but does that mean that it recognises the need to close the courts that the motion does not mention? That seems a wee bit odd. Perhaps the mover of the motion would like to take the opportunity to clarify the position—or perhaps not. I cannot thank Lewis Macdonald for any clarification; if he does not wish to intervene, he can perhaps ensure that the point is dealt with in the closing speech.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06306, in the name of Lewis Macdonald, on access to justice. I invite members who wish to speak in the de...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
We have brought this debate to the chamber today to allow all members to have a say in the closures and cuts in function of Scotland’s courts—closures and cu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Can the member say what businesses were lost in the town of Linlithgow when the court in Linlithgow was closed and moved to Livingston?
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
As Mr MacAskill is a native of Linlithgow and I am not, I am sure that members will recognise that that was an entirely rhetorical question. The chairman of ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I suggest that Mr Macdonald and Mr MacAskill speak to the traders in Linlithgow to see whether the removal of the court from there was a good move.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That sounds like an excellent idea. I am sure that if Mr MacAskill does not manage to do that, Mr Findlay will.The economic impact is reason enough to have t...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
It might surprise the member to know that I met both the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and the Scottish Police Federation today. Chief Super...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That is very interesting. I am glad that, several days after making his decision, Mr MacAskill is finally getting around to meeting some people from the poli...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The member kindly quoted me, but I went on to say that, if I could not get that proposal resisted, I would certainly campaign to ensure that there is a justi...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Absolutely—that is indeed what Christine Grahame said.Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact ...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
The member quotes me correctly, but he will obviously realise that there are difficulties with the Scottish Government’s budget. If he wants no changes whats...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am sure that Mr Thompson was listening when I pointed out that the cabinet secretary wilfully allowed £24 million of police funding to be liable for paymen...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I make the point that some key participants were not here for the start of the debate. It is particularly important that...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to respond to Lewis Macdonald and the Labour motion. First, let us be clear about responsibilities. The Scottish Court Service is a...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I hear what the cabinet secretary is saying when he says that the proposals are not his and that he made a decision on the proposals between Tuesday and Thur...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
As Lewis Macdonald knows, I answered a topical question on an urgent matter from John Lamont, who was looking for my position. I indicated that I would be ma...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Some of the reforms will mean an increase in business for sheriff courts, such as personal injury cases coming down from the Court of Session to the sheriff ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
No, I do not believe so. Those matters have been factored in quite appropriately by the Scottish Court Service. If Ms Marra has concerns, I suggest that she ...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
Given the geographic conditions, there are significant differences between the court closures south of the border and those in Scotland in terms of the dista...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The residents of Alnwick, Penrith and Whitehaven might not take the same view as Mr Fergusson regarding their geography and central location. Those are chall...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I congratulate the Labour Party on bringing the debate to the chamber today, following the Scottish Government’s decision to cut the Scottish Court Service’s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member have an alternative suggestion for where the money should come from? Should it come from the health budget?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
There has been a cash-terms increase in the Scottish budget. It is for the Scottish Government to set priorities, but the closures that we are discussing rep...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I acknowledge the speeches by Lewis Macdonald and Margaret Mitchell. I take on board the concerns that they have raised and, as a member of the Justice Commi...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
How does Sandra White square the fact that members of her party make it clear that they oppose some of the cuts with the fact that, when it comes to decision...
Sandra White
SNP
When we look at the results of the elections, it seems that the people of Scotland trust the Scottish National Party, rather than the Labour Party. We need n...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Sandra White is in her last minute.
Sandra White
SNP
In a recent interview, Lewis Macdonald’s colleague Jenny Marra also failed to provide clarity on the Labour Party’s proposals. She acknowledged that there we...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
More than a year ago, I said that a hit list of court closures was being prepared and that my local court in Haddington was on it. The Cabinet Secretary for ...