Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 April 2013
24 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Access to Justice
There has been a cash-terms increase in the Scottish budget. It is for the Scottish Government to set priorities, but the closures that we are discussing represent not only the savings that have been talked about but additional costs, which have not been factored in at all.
Sheriff courts have increasingly come under pressure in recent years because more criminal business has been passed down from the High Court as a result of the Bonomy reforms. The situation has been made worse by the Scottish Government’s proposal to transfer more civil business to the sheriff courts when the Crown Office budget is being cut in real terms, resulting in fewer resources for fiscals and legal staff.
The cabinet secretary states that the closures will affect only 5 per cent of cases. To put that in context, according to the SCS’s consultation figures, that will require in excess of 12,500 cases or JP complaints to be heard elsewhere. More worryingly, that figure does not include the complaints that are heard by the nine JP courts that will close because they share premises with sheriff courts that are set for closure.
As has been stated, the Scottish Government is at the same time proposing to transfer civil business from the Court of Session to sheriff courts. Although the cabinet secretary has repeatedly claimed that the Scottish Court Service has taken that into account, it is difficult to see how that can be the case, given that the SCS’s consultation closed two months before the Government’s court reform plans were even published.
The cabinet secretary says that the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill seeks to
“put victims’ interests at the heart of improvements to the justice system”
and
“make what is often the most difficult episode in someone’s life a bit easier.”
However, in reality, the attempt to make savings by closing courts and diverting criminal and civil business to already overstretched courts comes at the expense of victims and witnesses, who will have to deal with access to justice issues.
Interestingly, I note that the SCS recommendations have not been subject to a formal equality impact assessment. There is absolutely no doubt that court users will face increased travel times and distances. For example, the closure of the court in Kirkcudbright will mean a 45-minute, 28-mile journey to Dumfries, which will add to costs and make delays and disruption to court business more likely. Worse still, any potential closure savings will be lost in increased spending on legal aid, police cover and cover for professionals attending court as witnesses.
Furthermore, as the Federation of Small Businesses and the Law Society, among others, pointed out in their responses to the SCS consultation, courts have a positive economic impact on local areas. Therefore, I welcome the decision to grant a stay of execution to Alloa sheriff court and Coatbridge JP court in my constituency, but the decision to close the JP courts in Motherwell and Cumbernauld will be a bitter blow for struggling town centre businesses in those places.
The closure of courts will also mean the deskilling of local solicitors and the loss of the continuity that is provided by sheriffs and JPs with knowledge of local communities. Those concerns cannot be dismissed by the assertion that technology can fill the gap. Videoconferences and webcams are no substitute for courts, which maintain visibility of justice for communities.
That view was confirmed only this week at the Justice Committee, when witnesses from the Faculty of Advocates and the Law Society stated that, notwithstanding some limited exceptions for vulnerable witnesses, the default position should always be that it is better for witnesses to be in court, especially given the importance in some cases of witnesses’ body language and even physical appearance, which are difficult to assess via television link. They also stressed that TV links make it difficult to build up a rapport with witnesses and that technical issues are common.
I suggest that the outrage would be such that the Scottish Government would shy away from agreeing the closure of a fifth of our schools or hospitals, so why are our courts considered fair game, with all the adverse consequences for access to justice and the Scottish justice system? To put it simply, the Scottish Government needs an urgent rethink to protect our local courts.
I move amendment S4M-06306.1, to leave out from “courts” to end and insert:
“a fifth of Scotland’s sheriff courts along with nine related Justice of the Peace courts and an additional four stand-alone Justice of the Peace courts in a very short timescale.”
15:41
Sheriff courts have increasingly come under pressure in recent years because more criminal business has been passed down from the High Court as a result of the Bonomy reforms. The situation has been made worse by the Scottish Government’s proposal to transfer more civil business to the sheriff courts when the Crown Office budget is being cut in real terms, resulting in fewer resources for fiscals and legal staff.
The cabinet secretary states that the closures will affect only 5 per cent of cases. To put that in context, according to the SCS’s consultation figures, that will require in excess of 12,500 cases or JP complaints to be heard elsewhere. More worryingly, that figure does not include the complaints that are heard by the nine JP courts that will close because they share premises with sheriff courts that are set for closure.
As has been stated, the Scottish Government is at the same time proposing to transfer civil business from the Court of Session to sheriff courts. Although the cabinet secretary has repeatedly claimed that the Scottish Court Service has taken that into account, it is difficult to see how that can be the case, given that the SCS’s consultation closed two months before the Government’s court reform plans were even published.
The cabinet secretary says that the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill seeks to
“put victims’ interests at the heart of improvements to the justice system”
and
“make what is often the most difficult episode in someone’s life a bit easier.”
However, in reality, the attempt to make savings by closing courts and diverting criminal and civil business to already overstretched courts comes at the expense of victims and witnesses, who will have to deal with access to justice issues.
Interestingly, I note that the SCS recommendations have not been subject to a formal equality impact assessment. There is absolutely no doubt that court users will face increased travel times and distances. For example, the closure of the court in Kirkcudbright will mean a 45-minute, 28-mile journey to Dumfries, which will add to costs and make delays and disruption to court business more likely. Worse still, any potential closure savings will be lost in increased spending on legal aid, police cover and cover for professionals attending court as witnesses.
Furthermore, as the Federation of Small Businesses and the Law Society, among others, pointed out in their responses to the SCS consultation, courts have a positive economic impact on local areas. Therefore, I welcome the decision to grant a stay of execution to Alloa sheriff court and Coatbridge JP court in my constituency, but the decision to close the JP courts in Motherwell and Cumbernauld will be a bitter blow for struggling town centre businesses in those places.
The closure of courts will also mean the deskilling of local solicitors and the loss of the continuity that is provided by sheriffs and JPs with knowledge of local communities. Those concerns cannot be dismissed by the assertion that technology can fill the gap. Videoconferences and webcams are no substitute for courts, which maintain visibility of justice for communities.
That view was confirmed only this week at the Justice Committee, when witnesses from the Faculty of Advocates and the Law Society stated that, notwithstanding some limited exceptions for vulnerable witnesses, the default position should always be that it is better for witnesses to be in court, especially given the importance in some cases of witnesses’ body language and even physical appearance, which are difficult to assess via television link. They also stressed that TV links make it difficult to build up a rapport with witnesses and that technical issues are common.
I suggest that the outrage would be such that the Scottish Government would shy away from agreeing the closure of a fifth of our schools or hospitals, so why are our courts considered fair game, with all the adverse consequences for access to justice and the Scottish justice system? To put it simply, the Scottish Government needs an urgent rethink to protect our local courts.
I move amendment S4M-06306.1, to leave out from “courts” to end and insert:
“a fifth of Scotland’s sheriff courts along with nine related Justice of the Peace courts and an additional four stand-alone Justice of the Peace courts in a very short timescale.”
15:41
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06306, in the name of Lewis Macdonald, on access to justice. I invite members who wish to speak in the de...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
We have brought this debate to the chamber today to allow all members to have a say in the closures and cuts in function of Scotland’s courts—closures and cu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Can the member say what businesses were lost in the town of Linlithgow when the court in Linlithgow was closed and moved to Livingston?
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
As Mr MacAskill is a native of Linlithgow and I am not, I am sure that members will recognise that that was an entirely rhetorical question. The chairman of ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I suggest that Mr Macdonald and Mr MacAskill speak to the traders in Linlithgow to see whether the removal of the court from there was a good move.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That sounds like an excellent idea. I am sure that if Mr MacAskill does not manage to do that, Mr Findlay will.The economic impact is reason enough to have t...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
It might surprise the member to know that I met both the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and the Scottish Police Federation today. Chief Super...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That is very interesting. I am glad that, several days after making his decision, Mr MacAskill is finally getting around to meeting some people from the poli...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The member kindly quoted me, but I went on to say that, if I could not get that proposal resisted, I would certainly campaign to ensure that there is a justi...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Absolutely—that is indeed what Christine Grahame said.Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact ...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
The member quotes me correctly, but he will obviously realise that there are difficulties with the Scottish Government’s budget. If he wants no changes whats...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am sure that Mr Thompson was listening when I pointed out that the cabinet secretary wilfully allowed £24 million of police funding to be liable for paymen...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I make the point that some key participants were not here for the start of the debate. It is particularly important that...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to respond to Lewis Macdonald and the Labour motion. First, let us be clear about responsibilities. The Scottish Court Service is a...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I hear what the cabinet secretary is saying when he says that the proposals are not his and that he made a decision on the proposals between Tuesday and Thur...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
As Lewis Macdonald knows, I answered a topical question on an urgent matter from John Lamont, who was looking for my position. I indicated that I would be ma...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Some of the reforms will mean an increase in business for sheriff courts, such as personal injury cases coming down from the Court of Session to the sheriff ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
No, I do not believe so. Those matters have been factored in quite appropriately by the Scottish Court Service. If Ms Marra has concerns, I suggest that she ...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
Given the geographic conditions, there are significant differences between the court closures south of the border and those in Scotland in terms of the dista...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The residents of Alnwick, Penrith and Whitehaven might not take the same view as Mr Fergusson regarding their geography and central location. Those are chall...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I congratulate the Labour Party on bringing the debate to the chamber today, following the Scottish Government’s decision to cut the Scottish Court Service’s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member have an alternative suggestion for where the money should come from? Should it come from the health budget?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
There has been a cash-terms increase in the Scottish budget. It is for the Scottish Government to set priorities, but the closures that we are discussing rep...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I acknowledge the speeches by Lewis Macdonald and Margaret Mitchell. I take on board the concerns that they have raised and, as a member of the Justice Commi...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
How does Sandra White square the fact that members of her party make it clear that they oppose some of the cuts with the fact that, when it comes to decision...
Sandra White
SNP
When we look at the results of the elections, it seems that the people of Scotland trust the Scottish National Party, rather than the Labour Party. We need n...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Sandra White is in her last minute.
Sandra White
SNP
In a recent interview, Lewis Macdonald’s colleague Jenny Marra also failed to provide clarity on the Labour Party’s proposals. She acknowledged that there we...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
More than a year ago, I said that a hit list of court closures was being prepared and that my local court in Haddington was on it. The Cabinet Secretary for ...