Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 April 2013
24 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Access to Justice
Absolutely—that is indeed what Christine Grahame said.
Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact of the court closure in Cupar. Members of the Justice Committee can throw out the proposals—they have it in their power to vote them down and send them back to the Parliament for a decision. They can do that, and I believe that they should do it.
Other SNP members who are in the chamber but who are not on the Justice Committee have expressed concern. For example, Dave Thompson told the Ross-shire Journal that he was
“extremely concerned by the proposal to close Dingwall Sheriff Court”.
Nigel Don told the Mearns Leader that
“The closure of courts such as Stonehaven is not yet a done deal”,
and urged his constituents to make their views known. Local councillors of all parties in Aberdeenshire opposed the closure proposal.
Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact of the court closure in Cupar. Members of the Justice Committee can throw out the proposals—they have it in their power to vote them down and send them back to the Parliament for a decision. They can do that, and I believe that they should do it.
Other SNP members who are in the chamber but who are not on the Justice Committee have expressed concern. For example, Dave Thompson told the Ross-shire Journal that he was
“extremely concerned by the proposal to close Dingwall Sheriff Court”.
Nigel Don told the Mearns Leader that
“The closure of courts such as Stonehaven is not yet a done deal”,
and urged his constituents to make their views known. Local councillors of all parties in Aberdeenshire opposed the closure proposal.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06306, in the name of Lewis Macdonald, on access to justice. I invite members who wish to speak in the de...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
We have brought this debate to the chamber today to allow all members to have a say in the closures and cuts in function of Scotland’s courts—closures and cu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Can the member say what businesses were lost in the town of Linlithgow when the court in Linlithgow was closed and moved to Livingston?
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
As Mr MacAskill is a native of Linlithgow and I am not, I am sure that members will recognise that that was an entirely rhetorical question. The chairman of ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I suggest that Mr Macdonald and Mr MacAskill speak to the traders in Linlithgow to see whether the removal of the court from there was a good move.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That sounds like an excellent idea. I am sure that if Mr MacAskill does not manage to do that, Mr Findlay will.The economic impact is reason enough to have t...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
It might surprise the member to know that I met both the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and the Scottish Police Federation today. Chief Super...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That is very interesting. I am glad that, several days after making his decision, Mr MacAskill is finally getting around to meeting some people from the poli...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The member kindly quoted me, but I went on to say that, if I could not get that proposal resisted, I would certainly campaign to ensure that there is a justi...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Absolutely—that is indeed what Christine Grahame said.Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact ...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
The member quotes me correctly, but he will obviously realise that there are difficulties with the Scottish Government’s budget. If he wants no changes whats...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am sure that Mr Thompson was listening when I pointed out that the cabinet secretary wilfully allowed £24 million of police funding to be liable for paymen...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I make the point that some key participants were not here for the start of the debate. It is particularly important that...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to respond to Lewis Macdonald and the Labour motion. First, let us be clear about responsibilities. The Scottish Court Service is a...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I hear what the cabinet secretary is saying when he says that the proposals are not his and that he made a decision on the proposals between Tuesday and Thur...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
As Lewis Macdonald knows, I answered a topical question on an urgent matter from John Lamont, who was looking for my position. I indicated that I would be ma...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Some of the reforms will mean an increase in business for sheriff courts, such as personal injury cases coming down from the Court of Session to the sheriff ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
No, I do not believe so. Those matters have been factored in quite appropriately by the Scottish Court Service. If Ms Marra has concerns, I suggest that she ...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
Given the geographic conditions, there are significant differences between the court closures south of the border and those in Scotland in terms of the dista...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The residents of Alnwick, Penrith and Whitehaven might not take the same view as Mr Fergusson regarding their geography and central location. Those are chall...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I congratulate the Labour Party on bringing the debate to the chamber today, following the Scottish Government’s decision to cut the Scottish Court Service’s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member have an alternative suggestion for where the money should come from? Should it come from the health budget?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
There has been a cash-terms increase in the Scottish budget. It is for the Scottish Government to set priorities, but the closures that we are discussing rep...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I acknowledge the speeches by Lewis Macdonald and Margaret Mitchell. I take on board the concerns that they have raised and, as a member of the Justice Commi...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
How does Sandra White square the fact that members of her party make it clear that they oppose some of the cuts with the fact that, when it comes to decision...
Sandra White
SNP
When we look at the results of the elections, it seems that the people of Scotland trust the Scottish National Party, rather than the Labour Party. We need n...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Sandra White is in her last minute.
Sandra White
SNP
In a recent interview, Lewis Macdonald’s colleague Jenny Marra also failed to provide clarity on the Labour Party’s proposals. She acknowledged that there we...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
More than a year ago, I said that a hit list of court closures was being prepared and that my local court in Haddington was on it. The Cabinet Secretary for ...