Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 April 2013
17 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Public Procurement Reform
I am delighted to speak in the debate, and my speech is built on the foundations that were laid by the Christie commission report to which Mary Scanlon has just referred. The report’s clear drivers were as follows: first, that reforms must aim to empower communities and individuals who receive public services and ensure that they are involved in service design and delivery; secondly, that public service providers and demanders must work to integrate service provision; and thirdly, that our whole system of public services—including the public, third and private sectors—must become more efficient by reducing duplication and by sharing services.
Simply put, we have to demolish the current shibboleths of public service procurement and establish sustainable economic growth that is built on a profoundly new buying culture. Gone must be the culture of, “We’ve always done it this way,” and, “We always contract with Joe Blow because he knows us and has never let us down.” Where is the best value or client benefit in those statements?
On Friday last week, I had the delight of meeting one of our more progressive councils, which actively talked about how it would build increased service provision and the buying of services around its communities; how it would seek to engage the local third sector and social enterprises in provision of public services; and how it would review and re-engineer, and recognise that there is a social cost to the community attached to outsourcing of work—just because it has always been done—to commercial companies from well outwith the local or neighbouring authority boundaries. I also dare to suggest that not to examine the effectiveness and efficiency of capable social and third sector enterprises that are close to home impacts on income.
I hope that the bill will place strictures on local authorities that allow commercial companies to retain profits from their contracts, while insisting, in some cases, on clawing back profits from social enterprises and third sector companies that provide services. That applies particularly in the care sector. This is not about protectionism; it is about productivity and social involvement.
In dealing with the bill, I ask the Government to secure at the point of inquiry better and easier standardisation of contracts. Whether or not we agree with 32 councils, it is administrative silliness to have simple and easy standard contracts redrawn and regurgitated across all 32 councils in the country.
I am glad that the cabinet secretary alluded to the living wage. The proposed bill consultation analysis summary says:
“In relation to the Annex regarding the Living Wage ... procurement activity should be used to encourage contractors to pay the living wage to their employees engaged in the delivery of public sector contracts.”
Simply put, we have to demolish the current shibboleths of public service procurement and establish sustainable economic growth that is built on a profoundly new buying culture. Gone must be the culture of, “We’ve always done it this way,” and, “We always contract with Joe Blow because he knows us and has never let us down.” Where is the best value or client benefit in those statements?
On Friday last week, I had the delight of meeting one of our more progressive councils, which actively talked about how it would build increased service provision and the buying of services around its communities; how it would seek to engage the local third sector and social enterprises in provision of public services; and how it would review and re-engineer, and recognise that there is a social cost to the community attached to outsourcing of work—just because it has always been done—to commercial companies from well outwith the local or neighbouring authority boundaries. I also dare to suggest that not to examine the effectiveness and efficiency of capable social and third sector enterprises that are close to home impacts on income.
I hope that the bill will place strictures on local authorities that allow commercial companies to retain profits from their contracts, while insisting, in some cases, on clawing back profits from social enterprises and third sector companies that provide services. That applies particularly in the care sector. This is not about protectionism; it is about productivity and social involvement.
In dealing with the bill, I ask the Government to secure at the point of inquiry better and easier standardisation of contracts. Whether or not we agree with 32 councils, it is administrative silliness to have simple and easy standard contracts redrawn and regurgitated across all 32 councils in the country.
I am glad that the cabinet secretary alluded to the living wage. The proposed bill consultation analysis summary says:
“In relation to the Annex regarding the Living Wage ... procurement activity should be used to encourage contractors to pay the living wage to their employees engaged in the delivery of public sector contracts.”
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06153, in the name of Maureen Watt, on behalf of the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee, on ...
Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
SNP
It is a pleasure to open this debate on public procurement on behalf of the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee. As members know, the Scottish Go...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
We sometimes hear criticism of the EU, for a variety of reasons. Will the member confirm what I think that he just said, which is that the EU gives Scottish ...
Gordon MacDonald
SNP
I agree on that point. The EU-wide framework opens up opportunities for Scottish companies, because the scale of procurement by the public sector across the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We are extraordinarily tight for time today. I call on Nicola Sturgeon, who has up to 10 minutes.14:50
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
As Gordon MacDonald has just said, Scottish public bodies spend more than £9 billion of taxpayers’ money every year, so it stands to reason that the decision...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
On a question of timing, does the minister intend to wait until the EU process of reform is further down the line before introducing a bill here, or does she...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
We hope to introduce the procurement reform bill before the summer recess. We require to give ourselves comfort that what we propose in that bill will be wit...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I suspect that procurement as a topic for debate may not have set many members’ pulses racing, but I am encouraged to hear that the debate is tightly subscri...
John Mason
SNP
Will Elaine Murray give way on that point?
Elaine Murray
Lab
Sorry, I have only 10 seconds.We should not subsidise low pay in other sectors. I know that my colleague Kezia Dugdale is considering taking forward John Par...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You must close, please.
Elaine Murray
Lab
Workers’ rights must be respected. The cabinet secretary also made some good points about the use of community benefit clauses.I look forward to the introduc...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The Conservatives, too, welcome today’s debate, which provides an opportunity to bring forward some ideas.The motion in the name of Maureen Watt states that ...
John Mason
SNP
Does Mary Scanlon accept that one reason why we have limited resources is that we have tied up funds in private finance initiative projects, which have ended...
Mary Scanlon
Con
I am not sure that that was a positive contribution, which I am hoping to make.More recently, we received the report “Improving community planning in Scotlan...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
That is much appreciated. We move to the open debate.15:13
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to speak in the debate, and my speech is built on the foundations that were laid by the Christie commission report to which Mary Scanlon has j...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I agree that there should be encouragement, but currently, the European Union legislation and a test case—Dirk Rüffert v Land Niedersachsen—show that we cann...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Of course, I agree with the latter point. I will come to the former in a minute.On the living wage and public sector contracts, it is anathema to me that we ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The member’s keeping to time is much appreciated.15:19
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the proposed procurement reform bill and the wider procurement agenda, which is—I am glad to say—at last being given the ...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee for holding this debate. It is an excellent idea to ask—as the motion states—for“members’ views o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Thank you. Before I call John Mason, I just want to say that the building work is not supposed to be taking place while Parliament is sitting, so we are havi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you for that reassurance, Presiding Officer.I welcome the fact that procurement is on the agenda. Although we all accept that there is definitely room ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We are very tight for time.15:37
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I, too, declare an interest as an honorary fellow of RIAS. I very much agree with Linda Fabiani’s point that the Deputy First Minister’s bill should not be s...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee for giving us this opportunity to debate this important issue today. For many, this issue is not ...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
In these tough economic circumstances, it is right that the Parliament takes time to scrutinise how Scotland uses its buying power to promote social and econ...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
In the interests of fairness, will the member acknowledge that it is not that we do not support legislation for a living wage but that EU legislation does no...