Hansard

The Convener: SNP

We reconvene for agenda item 2. I welcome Fiona Hyslop, who has joined us for the item, the Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, Allan Wilso...

The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson): Lab

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer—I mean convener.

Richard Baker: Lab

That would be an unlikely elevation.

Allan Wilson: Lab

I should say that I am not a well man. That might explain my momentary lapse.On my left is Gill Troup and on my right is Hugh McAloon. I am sure that they wi...

The Convener: SNP

Thank you for your comprehensive explanation. I invite members' questions.

Murdo Fraser: Con

I tried as hard as I could to follow your explanation, minister. You mentioned many figures, which I tried to jot down.Fees for medical students are perhaps ...

Allan Wilson: Lab

As I have mentioned, there are two levels of risk—short-term risk and long-term risk. When the former Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, Jim Wall...

Murdo Fraser: Con

With respect, I do not follow your argument. Let us consider Universities Scotland's proposal, which was to defer the change for a year and to see what happe...

Allan Wilson: Lab

We had no intention of introducing a measure that would deter Scotland-domiciled students from applying this year.

Murdo Fraser: Con

I am sorry; that was probably the wrong way to put it.

Allan Wilson: Lab

We were intent on maintaining a balance in cross-border flows. The statement that we made in advance of the closure date for applications to Scottish univers...

Murdo Fraser: Con

What risk would be created by delaying for a year?

Allan Wilson: Lab

There would have been a risk if we had not indicated our intention to introduce the order.

Murdo Fraser: Con

I appreciate that, but we are where we are. If you were to take Universities Scotland's advice and to delay for a year the introduction of the additional fee...

Allan Wilson: Lab

In the longer term, there would be the risk of a much more substantial increase in the number of applications that were made to Scottish institutions by Engl...

Murdo Fraser: Con

We may have to agree to disagree on that point.

Allan Wilson: Lab

Do you not think that a difference of £7,500 between the cost of studying medicine here and the cost of studying it in England would serve to increase the cr...

Murdo Fraser: Con

If you were to take the advice of Universities Scotland and to defer for a year the introduction of the additional fee for medical students, what possible da...

Allan Wilson: Lab

If we were to defer it, it would only delay the prospective increase.

Murdo Fraser: Con

Which is what Universities Scotland proposes.

Allan Wilson: Lab

And we have said that we are not prepared to take that risk with the supply of doctors into the Scottish NHS.

Murdo Fraser: Con

I have to say that you have not made the case that there is a risk, but we will agree to disagree.

Christine May: Lab

At a number of events that I have attended, NUS Scotland in particular has expressed the fear that by introducing the fee increase, a strong signal is being ...

Allan Wilson: Lab

I thought that I went to some lengths in my opening statement to point out that the only increase in fees beyond that which we propose would apply to medical...

Christine May: Lab

My second question relates to higher education courses that are delivered in further education colleges—I have raised the matter before. Will the increase in...

Hugh McAloon (Scottish Executive Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning Department):

When you say "increase in support", do you mean the higher fee?

Christine May: Lab

The higher fee.

Hugh McAloon:

It will be higher if colleges offer full-time degree courses. For HND and HNC courses, which make up the overwhelming number, the fee will be set at £1,200, ...

Christine May: Lab

Will colleges in which elements of university courses are delivered, but which are currently not supported at the same level as universities, get the same su...

Hugh McAloon:

The fee level will be the same for the same level of provision. If a degree course is delivered in a college, the fee level will be £1,700, which would come ...