Committee
Justice Committee 11 December 2012
11 Dec 2012 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
School Exclusions and Offending
Professor Munn
Watch on SPTV
I would not say that we are getting it right, but I think that we are getting it better. The vast majority of young people who are excluded from school are excluded only once and for a short time. There is therefore an issue about why that happens at all, if exclusion is a last resort. I think that we use permanent exclusion much less frequently. There is a difference between permanent exclusion, when the parent and the local authority have to find another school or other educational provision for a child, and temporary exclusion. It is mostly temporary exclusion that is used in Scotland, which is quite different from the situation in other bits of the United Kingdom. We ought not to be shy about saying that.Where I think that we are getting it wrong is in the persistent patterns of exclusion for children and young people from disadvantaged families, those being looked after by a local authority, those who have learning support needs and so on. Although the overall numbers are declining, the persistence of the patterns is very worrying, particularly when we read in the data sets underpinning the exclusion summary tables that we all see that children are being excluded from primary 1. That raises profound questions about why that is happening.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 3 on the agenda is a round-table discussion on the connection between school exclusions and offending. Alison McInnes suggested the topic back in Februa...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I am a member of the Scottish Parliament for North East Scotland and I am deputy convener of the committee.
Alan Staff (Apex Scotland)
I am the chief executive officer of Apex Scotland. My background is in child and adolescent psychiatry and addictions.
David McLetchie
Con
I am an MSP for Lothian.
John Butcher (Association of Directors of Education in Scotland)
I am head of inclusion at Glasgow City Council and am representing ADES.
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I am the MSP for North East Fife.
Vivienne Sutherland (Association of Scottish Principal Educational Psychologists)
I am a depute principal educational psychologist in Fife and am representing the Association of Scottish Principal Educational Psychologists.
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
SNP
I am the MSP for Edinburgh Western.
Susan Quinn (Educational Institute of Scotland)
I am the president of the EIS.
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
I am a Highlands and Islands MSP.
Maggie Fallon (Education Scotland)
I am from the rights, support and wellbeing team in Education Scotland.
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I am the MSP for Glasgow Kelvin.
Nico Juetten (Office of Scotland's Commissioner for Children and Young People)
I work for Scotland’s Commissioner for Children and Young People.
Colin Morrison (Pupil Inclusion Network Scotland)
I am from the pupil inclusion network.
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I am an MSP for North East Scotland.
Jim Thewliss (School Leaders Scotland)
Good morning. In my day job, I am headteacher at Harris academy in Dundee. I am representing SLS.
Eileen Prior (Scottish Parent Teacher Council)
Hello. I am from the Scottish Parent Teacher Council.
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am a member of the Scottish Parliament for South Scotland.
Professor Pamela Munn (Moray House School of Education)
I am from the University of Edinburgh.
Professor Susan McVie (Edinburgh Study of Youth Transitions and Crime)
I, too, am from the University of Edinburgh.
The Convener
SNP
I am the convener of the committee and the MSP for Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale. I like saying that constituency name, as it is long.I will thr...
Alan Staff
We are getting it wrong.
The Convener
SNP
There is controversy. Good.
Alan Staff
Absolutely.The majority of young people who are excluded have already begun an offending background. They already commit a range of minor offences. Excluding...
Susan Quinn
I do not think that we are particularly getting things wrong. Anybody in society would hope that we would never exclude any child, but there are multiple rea...
The Convener
SNP
Can you expand on what you said about some support systems no longer being available?
Susan Quinn
Absolutely. For example, a colleague approached me a month ago about a difficulty in a secondary school. I asked what the behaviour policy was and she said t...
Professor Munn
I would not say that we are getting it right, but I think that we are getting it better. The vast majority of young people who are excluded from school are e...
John Butcher
In many ways, I agree with Professor Munn. I think that we are getting it right and I do not agree that we are getting it wrong. We are on the road to gettin...
Jim Thewliss
In my previous life I was a geography teacher and I am married to a history teacher, so I am used to challenging and difficult questions from history teacher...