Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 11 December 2012
11 Dec 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Role of Science in Public Policy
I welcome Dr Allan, who has just parachuted in from afar.
Science plays a vital role in influencing all that we do as a society and a central part in supporting our economy, so, like the Government, I believe that this is an important debate.
In our learning and human development, in the creation and application of new technologies and in our understanding of the world and, indeed, the universe around us, science helps us to explain both simple and extremely complex concepts as well as the practical solutions that are brought to bear on many of the world’s most serious problems. From the big bang, evolution and weather patterns to inventions, space travel and new technology, science is at the core of our understanding of life and our interactions with all aspects of it.
Science is taught in our schools from the earliest years, and the new school curriculum lends itself to encouraging a cross-curricular approach to the study of science. I know that our teachers will rise to the occasion, as they always do, to deliver new and stimulating lessons not just in the traditional sciences of chemistry, biology and physics but in health and food technology, geography, music, science, art, information technology and all the other disciplines that go to make up the curriculum.
Of course, it is through school learning that, throughout history, Scots have been inspired to become world leaders in the development of new scientific advances. Celebrated Scottish scientists and inventors have made a tremendous impact on the world and on humanity. Obvious examples include John Logie Baird, whose impact we could all say was truly revolutionary. Even a visionary such as he could hardly have conceived of the power and breadth of his work. Of course, I am absolutely certain that, at some point during his experiments, there was a sceptical Scottish laboratory assistant looking over his shoulder, saying, “I don’t know why you’re wasting your time on that thing; it’ll never catch on.”
Others, such as James Young Simpson, changed medical science for ever. James “Paraffin” Young was a pioneer in the field of shale oil technology, which was referred to only a few minutes ago in the chamber, and, in recent years, Ian Wilmut and Keith Campbell at the Roslin institute created the world’s most famous sheep, Dolly, who changed the face of science by becoming the first mammal to be successfully cloned. I am absolutely certain that there is a joke to be made at this point about politicians, but I will resist.
Scotland has produced countless physicists, engineers, botanists, astronomers and mathematicians—I do not include myself in that list. The Scottish science hall of fame includes the following people in its list of our top 10 greatest scientists: Lord Kelvin, who is famous for the temperature scale and the development of the trans-Atlantic telegraph; James Hutton, a pioneering geologist; Logie Baird, whom I have mentioned; James Watt, who is famous for the steam engine; Robert Watson-Watt, who developed the use of radar; Alexander Graham Bell, who invented the telephone; Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin; Joseph Black, who discovered carbon dioxide; Maxwell—not Stewart, I hasten to add—whose achievements are too many to list; and John Napier, who invented logarithms and who I can now blame for my third-year misery in maths. There are, of course, countless others who are unknown to the wider world but who do important scientific work every day, including work within Government, which we recognise and which the cabinet secretary ably listed.
There are some people who will soon be added to the Scottish science hall of fame. Given his speech in last week’s careers debate, I am sure that the next member will be that great Scottish inventor, Stewart Stevenson, along with his brother. We will hear more about that in the debate, I am sure.
However, what is striking about that stellar list of scientists is the fact that there are no women on it. Indeed, there appear to be real issues with the recruitment and retention of women in science.
Science plays a vital role in influencing all that we do as a society and a central part in supporting our economy, so, like the Government, I believe that this is an important debate.
In our learning and human development, in the creation and application of new technologies and in our understanding of the world and, indeed, the universe around us, science helps us to explain both simple and extremely complex concepts as well as the practical solutions that are brought to bear on many of the world’s most serious problems. From the big bang, evolution and weather patterns to inventions, space travel and new technology, science is at the core of our understanding of life and our interactions with all aspects of it.
Science is taught in our schools from the earliest years, and the new school curriculum lends itself to encouraging a cross-curricular approach to the study of science. I know that our teachers will rise to the occasion, as they always do, to deliver new and stimulating lessons not just in the traditional sciences of chemistry, biology and physics but in health and food technology, geography, music, science, art, information technology and all the other disciplines that go to make up the curriculum.
Of course, it is through school learning that, throughout history, Scots have been inspired to become world leaders in the development of new scientific advances. Celebrated Scottish scientists and inventors have made a tremendous impact on the world and on humanity. Obvious examples include John Logie Baird, whose impact we could all say was truly revolutionary. Even a visionary such as he could hardly have conceived of the power and breadth of his work. Of course, I am absolutely certain that, at some point during his experiments, there was a sceptical Scottish laboratory assistant looking over his shoulder, saying, “I don’t know why you’re wasting your time on that thing; it’ll never catch on.”
Others, such as James Young Simpson, changed medical science for ever. James “Paraffin” Young was a pioneer in the field of shale oil technology, which was referred to only a few minutes ago in the chamber, and, in recent years, Ian Wilmut and Keith Campbell at the Roslin institute created the world’s most famous sheep, Dolly, who changed the face of science by becoming the first mammal to be successfully cloned. I am absolutely certain that there is a joke to be made at this point about politicians, but I will resist.
Scotland has produced countless physicists, engineers, botanists, astronomers and mathematicians—I do not include myself in that list. The Scottish science hall of fame includes the following people in its list of our top 10 greatest scientists: Lord Kelvin, who is famous for the temperature scale and the development of the trans-Atlantic telegraph; James Hutton, a pioneering geologist; Logie Baird, whom I have mentioned; James Watt, who is famous for the steam engine; Robert Watson-Watt, who developed the use of radar; Alexander Graham Bell, who invented the telephone; Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin; Joseph Black, who discovered carbon dioxide; Maxwell—not Stewart, I hasten to add—whose achievements are too many to list; and John Napier, who invented logarithms and who I can now blame for my third-year misery in maths. There are, of course, countless others who are unknown to the wider world but who do important scientific work every day, including work within Government, which we recognise and which the cabinet secretary ably listed.
There are some people who will soon be added to the Scottish science hall of fame. Given his speech in last week’s careers debate, I am sure that the next member will be that great Scottish inventor, Stewart Stevenson, along with his brother. We will hear more about that in the debate, I am sure.
However, what is striking about that stellar list of scientists is the fact that there are no women on it. Indeed, there appear to be real issues with the recruitment and retention of women in science.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05154, in the name of Alasdair Allan, on the role of scientific evidence in advice on public policy. Mich...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
My speaking notes start with the following observation:“We all make decisions every day. Those decisions are based on what we know and what we think we know....
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I ask the cabinet secretary to confirm that the meeting that he and I were supposed to be having at this very minute is, therefore, postponed.
Michael Russell
SNP
I am happy to say that it is not postponed and the member is now late for it. My officials are leading that meeting and, with the permission of the chamber, ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I certainly agree with all that the cabinet secretary said about Marine Scotland and scientific advice. However, I point out the danger that, sometimes, ther...
Michael Russell
SNP
I very much agree with Liam McArthur. As the environment minister, I dealt with aspects of the fisheries portfolio, and he puts his finger on a key issue: al...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I entirely agree with the cabinet secretary, but the response to the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine demonstrated a divergence between public opinion, whi...
Michael Russell
SNP
The member makes an important point. I was just about to talk about the sciencewise expert resource centre for public dialogue in science and innovation, whi...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Not me.
Michael Russell
SNP
It was not Mr Findlay, apparently. He is unable to decide whose evidence he can support: mine or that which is still to come from Dr Allan. I am sure that Mr...
Michael Russell
SNP
The objections from Labour members to support for the Tory amendment are quite extraordinary. The evidence base shows that they always support the Tory party...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I think that we are all very pleased to see Dr Allan.I call Neil Findlay to speak to and move amendment S4M-05154.2. Mr Findlay...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome Dr Allan, who has just parachuted in from afar.Science plays a vital role in influencing all that we do as a society and a central part in supporti...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I wonder why Mr Findlay did not include in that list Mary Fairfax Somerville, after whom committee room 2 is named. She was a well-known female Scottish scie...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I thank the member for that intervention. What do you have to say, Mr Findlay?
Neil Findlay
Lab
I thank Dr Murray for that question—I believe that she was a scientist herself. However, I was referring to the list of the top 10 members of the Scottish sc...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I strongly agree with the member’s point about the need to attract and retain women in STEM subjects, but I am curious about why, in neither his amendment no...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I will come on to that. The issue has a critical role to play because if we take only or largely a male perspective on policy, our policy process is much the...
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)
SNP
Does the member acknowledge that the benefit that Scotland reaps in research funding is due not to any act of charity but to the excellence of Scottish insti...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Absolutely. We recognise that and hope that that will continue. However, these are legitimate questions to ask.A recent Universities Scotland briefing paper ...
Dr Simpson
Lab
The member may wish to note that the Wellcome Trust stopped paying for research—at 100 per cent—in Ireland after it became independent.The other point that n...
Neil Findlay
Lab
As always, Dr Simpson adds weight to the debate. I am sure that I do not need to add anything further. Those doubts were raised by one of the UK’s most respe...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I very much welcome this debate on the role of scientific evidence and advice in public policy, and I welcome the minister to his place. I am sorry that the ...
Patrick Harvie
Green
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Murdo Fraser
Con
I do not want to depart into a debate about climate science. I was simply making the point gently—although I seem to have hit a raw nerve with Mr Harvie in d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The member must close now.
Murdo Fraser
Con
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George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
My dad was an armature winder and engineer. He repaired the electric motors in generators and was a proud tradesman who had learned his trade on a very pract...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Scotland should certainly aspire to science-based policy making, especially given our historical record in science, whether we mean Hutton working out the ag...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Iain Gray mentioned genetic modification. Rightly, my party is willing to be faced with questions if we assert something that is not scientifically valid. Ho...