Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 11 December 2012
11 Dec 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Role of Science in Public Policy
The member makes an important point. I was just about to talk about the sciencewise expert resource centre for public dialogue in science and innovation, which is a UK-wide initiative and has knowledge and experience of running public dialogues on science and technology-related issues. On the member’s specific point about press and public perceptions being set against scientific information, advice and fact, we cannot change things overnight throughout society, but we can change things by a process of education and information. Projects such as sciencewise, which hopes to educate a range of people through dialogue, enable us to touch even hard-to-reach places such as the press, so that people understand science and technology-related issues. We are involved in steering sciencewise’s work.
The civil service reform plan and the office of the chief scientific adviser are also focused on making information about policy making open and accessible to all.
We are taking a lead role in the EU-funded places project—a pan-European initiative that is exploring best practice in relation to the concept of cities of scientific culture.
By ensuring that we have a pro-science culture and an understanding of science, we will address the point that Dr Simpson made, but the point must also be addressed in Government. All sides of politics must be devoted to, interested in and supportive of science-based policy making.
Science centres and festivals offer other ways in which we can influence the public’s view. The Government has supported such initiatives, which have helped to connect citizens with the science-related policy process and scientific issues. Science centres and festivals provide venues and exciting opportunities for people of all ages to discover things about science and learn about the importance of science in our lives. This year we allocated £3.5 million to support science centres, festivals and other initiatives. Scottish Government scientists play an important role in such events.
I am keen to see—and I am glad that I always do see—Government scientists out there engaging with people. I was glad, for example, that Professor Muffy Calder took on the chairmanship of the information technology excellence group within my portfolio so that she could engage with IT users and develop the right ideas for the continuation of IT excellence in Scotland.
Talking of education, we have to ensure that science is at the heart of what we do in the classroom. Government scientists go into schools to bring real-life relevance to science lessons. They play a role in supporting extra-curricular activities such as science, technology, engineering and mathematics clubs, and they act as role models, telling their own stories about the range of careers in science that are open to young people. Thousands of scientists, engineers and technologists in both the public and private sectors in Scotland also undertake those tasks, with many of them working through the excellent STEM ambassadors programme. SASA staff organise school visits, as do many others, and Marine Scotland organised its first glow meet for 1,700 pupils earlier this year.
Engaging scientists with policy making, engaging the public with science and ensuring that the ideas of science, the enthusiasm for science and the opportunities of science are made known through our schools and through our society are all very important, as is increasing opportunities to study science. I am pleased that, year on year, we have been able to continue to support STEM projects that do those things, encouraging others to come into science, including young women, who have often been deterred from going into science. The work that is being done on that is important, as indeed are things such as the Primary Engineer awards, which I will be involved in later this week.
Politics and science are not separate. They are intertwined. The idea that politics and policy making somehow stand aside from other things in society is plain wrong. The role of science in encouraging policy making in Scotland is clear, and I am glad that Dr Allan decided to bring the subject to the chamber for debate. When he comes in and contributes to it, I am sure that his enthusiasm will shine through. [Interruption.] As Mr Findlay says from a sedentary position, we will all be delighted.
The civil service reform plan and the office of the chief scientific adviser are also focused on making information about policy making open and accessible to all.
We are taking a lead role in the EU-funded places project—a pan-European initiative that is exploring best practice in relation to the concept of cities of scientific culture.
By ensuring that we have a pro-science culture and an understanding of science, we will address the point that Dr Simpson made, but the point must also be addressed in Government. All sides of politics must be devoted to, interested in and supportive of science-based policy making.
Science centres and festivals offer other ways in which we can influence the public’s view. The Government has supported such initiatives, which have helped to connect citizens with the science-related policy process and scientific issues. Science centres and festivals provide venues and exciting opportunities for people of all ages to discover things about science and learn about the importance of science in our lives. This year we allocated £3.5 million to support science centres, festivals and other initiatives. Scottish Government scientists play an important role in such events.
I am keen to see—and I am glad that I always do see—Government scientists out there engaging with people. I was glad, for example, that Professor Muffy Calder took on the chairmanship of the information technology excellence group within my portfolio so that she could engage with IT users and develop the right ideas for the continuation of IT excellence in Scotland.
Talking of education, we have to ensure that science is at the heart of what we do in the classroom. Government scientists go into schools to bring real-life relevance to science lessons. They play a role in supporting extra-curricular activities such as science, technology, engineering and mathematics clubs, and they act as role models, telling their own stories about the range of careers in science that are open to young people. Thousands of scientists, engineers and technologists in both the public and private sectors in Scotland also undertake those tasks, with many of them working through the excellent STEM ambassadors programme. SASA staff organise school visits, as do many others, and Marine Scotland organised its first glow meet for 1,700 pupils earlier this year.
Engaging scientists with policy making, engaging the public with science and ensuring that the ideas of science, the enthusiasm for science and the opportunities of science are made known through our schools and through our society are all very important, as is increasing opportunities to study science. I am pleased that, year on year, we have been able to continue to support STEM projects that do those things, encouraging others to come into science, including young women, who have often been deterred from going into science. The work that is being done on that is important, as indeed are things such as the Primary Engineer awards, which I will be involved in later this week.
Politics and science are not separate. They are intertwined. The idea that politics and policy making somehow stand aside from other things in society is plain wrong. The role of science in encouraging policy making in Scotland is clear, and I am glad that Dr Allan decided to bring the subject to the chamber for debate. When he comes in and contributes to it, I am sure that his enthusiasm will shine through. [Interruption.] As Mr Findlay says from a sedentary position, we will all be delighted.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05154, in the name of Alasdair Allan, on the role of scientific evidence in advice on public policy. Mich...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
My speaking notes start with the following observation:“We all make decisions every day. Those decisions are based on what we know and what we think we know....
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I ask the cabinet secretary to confirm that the meeting that he and I were supposed to be having at this very minute is, therefore, postponed.
Michael Russell
SNP
I am happy to say that it is not postponed and the member is now late for it. My officials are leading that meeting and, with the permission of the chamber, ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I certainly agree with all that the cabinet secretary said about Marine Scotland and scientific advice. However, I point out the danger that, sometimes, ther...
Michael Russell
SNP
I very much agree with Liam McArthur. As the environment minister, I dealt with aspects of the fisheries portfolio, and he puts his finger on a key issue: al...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I entirely agree with the cabinet secretary, but the response to the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine demonstrated a divergence between public opinion, whi...
Michael Russell
SNP
The member makes an important point. I was just about to talk about the sciencewise expert resource centre for public dialogue in science and innovation, whi...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Not me.
Michael Russell
SNP
It was not Mr Findlay, apparently. He is unable to decide whose evidence he can support: mine or that which is still to come from Dr Allan. I am sure that Mr...
Michael Russell
SNP
The objections from Labour members to support for the Tory amendment are quite extraordinary. The evidence base shows that they always support the Tory party...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I think that we are all very pleased to see Dr Allan.I call Neil Findlay to speak to and move amendment S4M-05154.2. Mr Findlay...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome Dr Allan, who has just parachuted in from afar.Science plays a vital role in influencing all that we do as a society and a central part in supporti...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I wonder why Mr Findlay did not include in that list Mary Fairfax Somerville, after whom committee room 2 is named. She was a well-known female Scottish scie...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I thank the member for that intervention. What do you have to say, Mr Findlay?
Neil Findlay
Lab
I thank Dr Murray for that question—I believe that she was a scientist herself. However, I was referring to the list of the top 10 members of the Scottish sc...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I strongly agree with the member’s point about the need to attract and retain women in STEM subjects, but I am curious about why, in neither his amendment no...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I will come on to that. The issue has a critical role to play because if we take only or largely a male perspective on policy, our policy process is much the...
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)
SNP
Does the member acknowledge that the benefit that Scotland reaps in research funding is due not to any act of charity but to the excellence of Scottish insti...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Absolutely. We recognise that and hope that that will continue. However, these are legitimate questions to ask.A recent Universities Scotland briefing paper ...
Dr Simpson
Lab
The member may wish to note that the Wellcome Trust stopped paying for research—at 100 per cent—in Ireland after it became independent.The other point that n...
Neil Findlay
Lab
As always, Dr Simpson adds weight to the debate. I am sure that I do not need to add anything further. Those doubts were raised by one of the UK’s most respe...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I very much welcome this debate on the role of scientific evidence and advice in public policy, and I welcome the minister to his place. I am sorry that the ...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I am sure that the member is aware that the basic mechanism of the greenhouse gas has been identified for more than 150 years. There has been no lack of cons...
Murdo Fraser
Con
I do not want to depart into a debate about climate science. I was simply making the point gently—although I seem to have hit a raw nerve with Mr Harvie in d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The member must close now.
Murdo Fraser
Con
Too often, the committee heard the message that youngsters are not getting proper advice about the opportunities that are available in new industries and in ...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
My dad was an armature winder and engineer. He repaired the electric motors in generators and was a proud tradesman who had learned his trade on a very pract...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Scotland should certainly aspire to science-based policy making, especially given our historical record in science, whether we mean Hutton working out the ag...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Iain Gray mentioned genetic modification. Rightly, my party is willing to be faced with questions if we assert something that is not scientifically valid. Ho...