Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 26 September 2012
26 Sep 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Green Bus Fund
That is a fair concern, but the way in which the green bus fund has been distributed so far shows the benefit to small companies rather than the bigger ones to which Patrick Harvie refers. For example, Henderson Travel in Lanarkshire has benefited greatly from hybrid bus technology.
We are aware of the situation that Patrick Harvie described. Further development of the green bus fund will provide the possibility of doing some exciting things in the school bus transport system, which comprises a number of small operators as well. We are concerned to ensure that small and medium-sized enterprises benefit. So far, as I said, that has been the picture with the green bus fund.
Alexander Dennis has won orders across the world and now has substantial investments in bus building in Australia. It continues to innovate and is looking at how hybrids can be made still more effective in operation. When I recently visited Alexander Dennis I discussed school buses, not least because some of the fleet comprises older and less environmentally friendly buses. I hope that that discussion will lead to further innovation.
Alexander Dennis can also provide examples of the delivery of other benefits that we have sought through the Scottish green bus fund: investing in technology, developing Scottish expertise and delivering real commercial benefits for operators as well as environmental ones. Given the recent history of Alexander Dennis, we should all be pleased about the turnaround that has taken place in that company and the vibrancy with which it approaches the future.
The green bus fund supports capital investment, but it is not the only way in which we incentivise low-carbon vehicles across Scotland’s bus network. The bus service operators grant, which is mentioned in the Labour amendment, has been refocused so that we provide additional, continuing revenue incentives for the operation of low-carbon vehicles, including hybrids, which benefit from a doubling in grant compared with that for conventional vehicles. Members will remember that the rationale for the changes to the bus service operators grant that have taken place is to help more rural areas and to ensure that what we do rewards actual miles travelled by buses with passengers, which is important and was not the case before. We have doubled the incentives for operators to use environmentally friendly vehicles and the bus service operators grant is another means by which to improve the environment.
We must acknowledge, though, that operators take something of a risk when they purchase what is still a relatively new and unproven technology, albeit with the caveat that I mentioned previously about the experience in Lothian. The technology is increasingly less unproven and is becoming more known to more bus operators. However, such purchasing decisions can be difficult, given the technological and market uncertainties. The green bus fund and the low-carbon bus service operators grant try to help reduce the risks and shift the balance. In the long term, I believe that operators stand to reap considerable benefits. I referred previously to a 60 per cent reduction in fuel consumption in that regard. Fuel costs for the bus industry have gone up by 57 per cent in the past five years, so the ability to substantially reduce such costs—by more than half in the case that I mentioned—must be good news.
I applaud the way in which operators have used our support creatively as an opportunity to develop their services and not just their vehicles. If that is done well it makes a substantial difference for the user, with higher-specification vehicles. If anybody has not tried the number 10 vehicles in Edinburgh, I encourage them to do so—they have a higher spec and a different appearance so that everyone knows that they are on a hybrid vehicle. Such vehicles give a smoother ride, have strong branding and highlight the clear contribution that travelling by bus makes to helping the environment. That imaginative use of new technology has helped its early acceptance by the public and it offers a direction for future improvements in service quality.
Talking about the future, it is now clear that there are substantive benefits from the investment made through the green bus fund. However, there are 5,400 vehicles in the Scottish bus fleet, so we have more to do. I re-emphasise that we are trying to incentivise the move towards green buses. The benefit will be that, over time, the investments by operators and producers will start to make that easier. The third and future rounds of the fund will have their part to play. I look forward to continuing to work in partnership with bus operators and manufacturers to finish what we have started and to make a substantial centre of excellence in Scotland.
The Government considers the green bus fund to be a proven success. Despite the current financial difficulties, we will continue to take every opportunity to make the investment and to consider how to further that investment with the industry, to help with its drive to ensure that the cost reductions and other benefits from the technology that is there or coming are realised.
I have focused on hybrid buses and the green bus fund, but it is important to recognise that other technologies offer similar benefits to our bus fleets and to other forms of road transport. For example, the Government supports the hydrogen bus project that is being led by Aberdeen City Council and SSE. That will result in 10 hydrogen buses operating on routes in central Aberdeen, which will be the largest fleet of hydrogen-powered buses anywhere in Europe.
A local company in my constituency developed a hydrogen power unit that can be used in ferries. In fact, it is being used in a ferry in Bristol. Because the unit is so efficient and light, after it was fitted more ballast had to be put into the vessel. There is a difficulty with new technologies to do with ensuring that the regulatory framework is there. That project was, if you like, a pipe clearer for future projects.
We also support electric vehicle technology. In March, we launched our E-cosse initiative, which is a partnership between Government, industry, WWF Scotland and other key stakeholders to advance the adoption of electric vehicles in Scotland. The initiative aims to make Scotland an EV pioneer. We are producing a road map, to be published in early 2013, which will lead to a portfolio of projects to advance electric vehicle adoption.
I have set out the original environmental aims of the Scottish green bus fund, outlined the benefits to the environment, the economy and bus users that have been delivered so far through the introduction of low-carbon vehicles to the bus fleet and looked forward to our continuing programme of support for the take-up of new hybrid technologies. I am therefore happy to move the motion in my name.
I move,
That the Parliament notes that the Scottish Green Bus Fund has already supported the delivery of 71 new low-carbon hybrid buses; welcomes the contribution that these are making toward reducing fuel consumption and Scotland’s carbon emissions; urges the Scottish Government and the bus industry to continue to work together to improve the environmental performance of Scotland’s bus fleet, and further welcomes the launch of the third round of the fund, worth £3 million in 2012-13, and the provision of an additional £2.5 million for hybrid buses in the draft budget for 2013-14.
14:57
We are aware of the situation that Patrick Harvie described. Further development of the green bus fund will provide the possibility of doing some exciting things in the school bus transport system, which comprises a number of small operators as well. We are concerned to ensure that small and medium-sized enterprises benefit. So far, as I said, that has been the picture with the green bus fund.
Alexander Dennis has won orders across the world and now has substantial investments in bus building in Australia. It continues to innovate and is looking at how hybrids can be made still more effective in operation. When I recently visited Alexander Dennis I discussed school buses, not least because some of the fleet comprises older and less environmentally friendly buses. I hope that that discussion will lead to further innovation.
Alexander Dennis can also provide examples of the delivery of other benefits that we have sought through the Scottish green bus fund: investing in technology, developing Scottish expertise and delivering real commercial benefits for operators as well as environmental ones. Given the recent history of Alexander Dennis, we should all be pleased about the turnaround that has taken place in that company and the vibrancy with which it approaches the future.
The green bus fund supports capital investment, but it is not the only way in which we incentivise low-carbon vehicles across Scotland’s bus network. The bus service operators grant, which is mentioned in the Labour amendment, has been refocused so that we provide additional, continuing revenue incentives for the operation of low-carbon vehicles, including hybrids, which benefit from a doubling in grant compared with that for conventional vehicles. Members will remember that the rationale for the changes to the bus service operators grant that have taken place is to help more rural areas and to ensure that what we do rewards actual miles travelled by buses with passengers, which is important and was not the case before. We have doubled the incentives for operators to use environmentally friendly vehicles and the bus service operators grant is another means by which to improve the environment.
We must acknowledge, though, that operators take something of a risk when they purchase what is still a relatively new and unproven technology, albeit with the caveat that I mentioned previously about the experience in Lothian. The technology is increasingly less unproven and is becoming more known to more bus operators. However, such purchasing decisions can be difficult, given the technological and market uncertainties. The green bus fund and the low-carbon bus service operators grant try to help reduce the risks and shift the balance. In the long term, I believe that operators stand to reap considerable benefits. I referred previously to a 60 per cent reduction in fuel consumption in that regard. Fuel costs for the bus industry have gone up by 57 per cent in the past five years, so the ability to substantially reduce such costs—by more than half in the case that I mentioned—must be good news.
I applaud the way in which operators have used our support creatively as an opportunity to develop their services and not just their vehicles. If that is done well it makes a substantial difference for the user, with higher-specification vehicles. If anybody has not tried the number 10 vehicles in Edinburgh, I encourage them to do so—they have a higher spec and a different appearance so that everyone knows that they are on a hybrid vehicle. Such vehicles give a smoother ride, have strong branding and highlight the clear contribution that travelling by bus makes to helping the environment. That imaginative use of new technology has helped its early acceptance by the public and it offers a direction for future improvements in service quality.
Talking about the future, it is now clear that there are substantive benefits from the investment made through the green bus fund. However, there are 5,400 vehicles in the Scottish bus fleet, so we have more to do. I re-emphasise that we are trying to incentivise the move towards green buses. The benefit will be that, over time, the investments by operators and producers will start to make that easier. The third and future rounds of the fund will have their part to play. I look forward to continuing to work in partnership with bus operators and manufacturers to finish what we have started and to make a substantial centre of excellence in Scotland.
The Government considers the green bus fund to be a proven success. Despite the current financial difficulties, we will continue to take every opportunity to make the investment and to consider how to further that investment with the industry, to help with its drive to ensure that the cost reductions and other benefits from the technology that is there or coming are realised.
I have focused on hybrid buses and the green bus fund, but it is important to recognise that other technologies offer similar benefits to our bus fleets and to other forms of road transport. For example, the Government supports the hydrogen bus project that is being led by Aberdeen City Council and SSE. That will result in 10 hydrogen buses operating on routes in central Aberdeen, which will be the largest fleet of hydrogen-powered buses anywhere in Europe.
A local company in my constituency developed a hydrogen power unit that can be used in ferries. In fact, it is being used in a ferry in Bristol. Because the unit is so efficient and light, after it was fitted more ballast had to be put into the vessel. There is a difficulty with new technologies to do with ensuring that the regulatory framework is there. That project was, if you like, a pipe clearer for future projects.
We also support electric vehicle technology. In March, we launched our E-cosse initiative, which is a partnership between Government, industry, WWF Scotland and other key stakeholders to advance the adoption of electric vehicles in Scotland. The initiative aims to make Scotland an EV pioneer. We are producing a road map, to be published in early 2013, which will lead to a portfolio of projects to advance electric vehicle adoption.
I have set out the original environmental aims of the Scottish green bus fund, outlined the benefits to the environment, the economy and bus users that have been delivered so far through the introduction of low-carbon vehicles to the bus fleet and looked forward to our continuing programme of support for the take-up of new hybrid technologies. I am therefore happy to move the motion in my name.
I move,
That the Parliament notes that the Scottish Green Bus Fund has already supported the delivery of 71 new low-carbon hybrid buses; welcomes the contribution that these are making toward reducing fuel consumption and Scotland’s carbon emissions; urges the Scottish Government and the bus industry to continue to work together to improve the environmental performance of Scotland’s bus fleet, and further welcomes the launch of the third round of the fund, worth £3 million in 2012-13, and the provision of an additional £2.5 million for hybrid buses in the draft budget for 2013-14.
14:57
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-04247, in the name of Keith Brown, on the green bus fund. I invite members who wish to speak in the debat...
The Minister for Transport and Veteran Affairs (Keith Brown)
SNP
The Government is committed, as its main purpose, to creating a more successful country, with opportunities for everybody to flourish through increasing sust...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I recognise the benefits that the minister has outlined, but is there not a danger that the approach simply gives opportunities for the bigger bus companies ...
Keith Brown
SNP
That is a fair concern, but the way in which the green bus fund has been distributed so far shows the benefit to small companies rather than the bigger ones ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I am sorry that the Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities is not here, as I wanted to welcome her formally to her new post. That pleasu...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
In the spirit of honesty and hard choices that I know that Labour is espousing, will Elaine Murray therefore advise which budget she would reduce in order to...
Elaine Murray
Lab
We rehearsed the EGIP issue last week and I said at the time that it was about Network Rail borrowing and not part of the capital budget. I will not make up ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
It is true.I will move on to concessionary bus fares and again I will tell you about the fears of bus service operators. They are concerned because, last yea...
Keith Brown
SNP
We have representatives from the Confederation of Passenger Transport in the gallery and the member should be aware that we are in discussion with it on that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
You are in your final minute, Ms Murray.
Elaine Murray
Lab
As I said, we are asking for an honest debate about how we fund what we see as desirable priorities. That is the whole issue, and you have consistently run a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call Alex Johnstone, I ask Elaine Murray to move her amendment.
Elaine Murray
Lab
I move amendment S4M-04247.2, to insert at end:“; notes the concerns expressed by bus service operators, passengers and trade unions regarding the Scottish G...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I also ask members to remember to speak through the chair, please.15:07
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
When I first saw the motion I thought that the debate would be fairly anodyne. However, we have already seen that there are things to be said and I congratul...
Keith Brown
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Johnstone
Con
I am afraid that I am in my final minute, but I hope that that discussion will progress.It is the case that, in principle, everyone in the chamber supports i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We come to the open debate.15:13
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
SNP
Even for someone who is a climate change doubter, creating a cleaner and healthier environment for ourselves and our children must be a commendable goal. Lik...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I advise members that they have six minutes for their speeches, but there is a wee bit of time in hand if members wish to take interventions.15:19
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The green bus fund is a welcome initiative. Of course, as Elaine Murray outlined, Labour initially called for it some years ago. Low-carbon buses, which the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I must ask you to come to a conclusion, Mr Gray.
Iain Gray
Lab
The truth is that low-emission buses are a good thing. However, if they are to serve more, not fewer, passengers, the time has come to go back to the kind of...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
I am glad to get up and speak in the debate, even though I have just lost half my speech. As I am used to speaking in quite controversial and combative debat...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
As a non-driver and regular bus user, I am in the same position as Mr Biagi. Unfortunately, most of my bus journeys are in Aberdeen and, instead of the £1.40...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the green bus initiative. Any investment—no matter how big or small—in public transport is welcome. I also welcome the sentiments behind the invest...
Keith Brown
SNP
It might repay the member to look at the figures. The amount for concessionary travel has substantially increased year on year and will increase again next y...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I have looked at the figures, which decrease from £255 million in 2011-12 to £248 million, £242 million next year and £236 million in 2015.
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
If that is the case, will the member explain why his party leader said yesterday that, in the budget,“spending on concessionary fares increased by 19%”?
Neil Findlay
Lab
I have taken my information from the Scottish Parliament information centre, so the member can argue with it.We should not forget that the investment in gree...