Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2012
03 Oct 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future
In Johann Lamont’s world, the only choices are whether to punish the pensioner or the student and whether to pass the cuts to the sick or the family struggling with council tax. With independence, we will have the ability to make different choices: the choice to get our economy growing faster so that revenues increase and the choice to shape a welfare system that reduces welfare costs by lifting people out of poverty. We will also have the choice—the real choice—not to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on Trident nuclear weapons but to invest instead in the things that really matter.
That is the real debate. It is a debate about who will determine the choices that define our politics and who will shape our future as a country: a right-wing Tory Government or this Parliament and the people whose lives are affected by the decisions that we take. I know that it was not Johann Lamont’s intention, but I have no doubt that her interventions last week will lead many more people to the latter option and to the conclusion that our destiny should be in our own hands—the conclusion that Scotland will be better off independent.
I move amendment S4M-04340.4, to leave out from “that cuts” to end and insert:
“the clear choice now facing the people of Scotland between managing a declining budget determined by the priorities of a UK Government or choosing a better way in which a Scottish Parliament, elected by the people of Scotland, has access to Scotland’s resources in order to ensure a fairer, wealthier and stronger society; recognises the health, societal and economic benefits of the universal provision provided under devolution and rejects the idea that this offers “something for nothing”; welcomes the actions taken by the Scottish Government since 2007 to ensure the sustainability of spending in Scotland, including the focus on preventative spending, reform of public services and the empowerment of communities as set out in the Independent Budget Review and the report of the Commission on the Future Delivery of Public Services, and agrees that, in order to ensure that Scotland reaches its full potential, can tackle poverty, protect key public services such as the NHS and deliver a socially just and economically vibrant society, it is necessary for the Scottish Parliament to have the full powers of an independent parliament.”
15:05
That is the real debate. It is a debate about who will determine the choices that define our politics and who will shape our future as a country: a right-wing Tory Government or this Parliament and the people whose lives are affected by the decisions that we take. I know that it was not Johann Lamont’s intention, but I have no doubt that her interventions last week will lead many more people to the latter option and to the conclusion that our destiny should be in our own hands—the conclusion that Scotland will be better off independent.
I move amendment S4M-04340.4, to leave out from “that cuts” to end and insert:
“the clear choice now facing the people of Scotland between managing a declining budget determined by the priorities of a UK Government or choosing a better way in which a Scottish Parliament, elected by the people of Scotland, has access to Scotland’s resources in order to ensure a fairer, wealthier and stronger society; recognises the health, societal and economic benefits of the universal provision provided under devolution and rejects the idea that this offers “something for nothing”; welcomes the actions taken by the Scottish Government since 2007 to ensure the sustainability of spending in Scotland, including the focus on preventative spending, reform of public services and the empowerment of communities as set out in the Independent Budget Review and the report of the Commission on the Future Delivery of Public Services, and agrees that, in order to ensure that Scotland reaches its full potential, can tackle poverty, protect key public services such as the NHS and deliver a socially just and economically vibrant society, it is necessary for the Scottish Parliament to have the full powers of an independent parliament.”
15:05
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-04340, in the name of Johann Lamont, on Scotland’s future. I remind members that the debate is heavily ov...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Presiding Officer, I note what you say about the debate being oversubscribed. It is our aspiration that this be a serious debate for the whole of Scotland. T...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member accept that the real people in my constituency, which is one of the neediest in the country, are very positive about no tuition fees, free pr...
Johann Lamont
Lab
I would hazard a guess that some of the women I met in Glasgow come from Mr Mason’s constituency. It is no comfort to them to tell them that things are fanta...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
On that point, I wonder whether Ms Lamont would like to tell us how she would reply to NUS Scotland, which said in an e-mail to us all this morning that it i...
Johann Lamont
Lab
I would ask the NUS: is it right that students who cannot get a place in a further education college are to pay the price of Mike Russell’s policies? We do n...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
I thank the member for raising my sales again. I am more than prepared to say today that my experience of the recession and of the loss of 25,000 university ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Michael Russell
SNP
That is the generous contribution to the debate that I will make. Will Ms Lamont now admit that she is wrong to victimise Scotland’s young people?
Johann Lamont
Lab
I think that the real difference is that Mr Russell opposed Alex Salmond when he wrote the book but now relies on his patronage. It is illogical to say that ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont
Lab
Unlike Mike Russell, I am not against universality. I just want to know how we are going to pay for it. We know that such concerns exist at the heart of the ...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP)
SNP
Johann Lamont has said:“Scotland cannot be the only something for nothing country in the world”.To which people in Scotland was she referring?
Johann Lamont
Lab
The fact is that the people whom I described who are living with the consequence of SNP cuts are paying the price for the SNP’s pretence that everything is d...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member is in her last 30 seconds.
Johann Lamont
Lab
The reality is that the SNP does not have a basic understanding of fairness. In my remaining time, I can give only one example. Is it fair that a mother has ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
It is always good to start on a consensual note, so let me kick off with something on which I agree with Johann Lamont. We have big questions to ask and answ...
Johann Lamont
Lab
First, does the cabinet secretary think that Campbell Christie was a Tory? Secondly, the responsibility of Government, regardless of the size of the cake, is...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I will come on to the choices that we should be able to make, but let us first remind ourselves about how Johann Lamont described policies designed to take p...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
Is it dignified to lie in a hospital bed without a blanket?
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
Labour is arguing that we should remove free personal care from our elderly. I take no lessons in dignity from anybody on the Labour side of the chamber.Here...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary used two examples—elderly people and the services that they rely on, and a young person going to university. What is her answer to the ...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
It is that this Parliament should have power to grow the economy and to increase revenues and should not be forced to choose between one student and another....
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Order. We cannot hear the cabinet secretary.
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
Those on the Tory benches would have been quick to put their hands up to my questions, because all the people that I talk about are people that Labour thinks...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
I think that it was a mistake right enough, but I think that I am the only one here old enough to have a bus pass.Members: No.
Margo MacDonald
Ind
The cabinet secretary gave the example of her constituent’s elderly sister in Inverness. My sister will kill me for saying that she is elderly but, although ...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
Stewart Stevenson might take issue with the member’s claim to be the only person in the Parliament who qualifies for a bus pass.We hear lots of examples cite...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Order.