Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 19 April 2012
19 Apr 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Services
I have lost track of the number of times that the Liberal Democrats have spent the consequentials that have been allocated.
It is important to acknowledge that substantial cut in our budget. A good starting point is to work out the cost of the commitments in the Labour Party motion. For example, we calculate that it would take approximately £85 million immediately to reverse changes to the BSOG subsidy and £50 million to reverse the fare increases that have been mentioned.
It is sometimes genuinely difficult to work out what the Labour Party means by reregulation, to go back to Charlie Gordon’s member’s bill, so we have to take a stab in the dark. It could cost up to £1 billion to fund the changes that he mentioned. I am less certain of the Labour Party’s current position.
The suggestions from Strathclyde partnership for transport, among others, are fairly reasonable. We cannot implement them all, because some—as Elaine Murray acknowledged—relate to reserved powers, and some of the decisions rest with parties other than the Government, but we are looking seriously at progressing a number of them. We have listened to those suggestions, which were discussed by the bus stakeholder group, and the cabinet secretary has made it clear that we will give them a warm welcome.
Those suggestions involve changing some of the regulatory aspects of the current regime to ensure that as far as possible we have bus services of the required standard in the required places at the required prices. They do not involve a £1 billion project for renationalisation or reregulation. The Labour Party had eight years—10 years, in fact—in which it could have reregulated, but for whatever reason it chose not to do so. We need therefore to ask whether Labour’s commitment is genuine.
If that is Labour’s position—which is sometimes hard to work out—how can it be that the 17 per cent cut that Elaine Murray mentioned is causing all those things to happen while a 27 per cent cut to bus services by the Labour Party in Wales is apparently not causing such chaos? There is a fundamental inconsistency in that.
It is important to acknowledge that substantial cut in our budget. A good starting point is to work out the cost of the commitments in the Labour Party motion. For example, we calculate that it would take approximately £85 million immediately to reverse changes to the BSOG subsidy and £50 million to reverse the fare increases that have been mentioned.
It is sometimes genuinely difficult to work out what the Labour Party means by reregulation, to go back to Charlie Gordon’s member’s bill, so we have to take a stab in the dark. It could cost up to £1 billion to fund the changes that he mentioned. I am less certain of the Labour Party’s current position.
The suggestions from Strathclyde partnership for transport, among others, are fairly reasonable. We cannot implement them all, because some—as Elaine Murray acknowledged—relate to reserved powers, and some of the decisions rest with parties other than the Government, but we are looking seriously at progressing a number of them. We have listened to those suggestions, which were discussed by the bus stakeholder group, and the cabinet secretary has made it clear that we will give them a warm welcome.
Those suggestions involve changing some of the regulatory aspects of the current regime to ensure that as far as possible we have bus services of the required standard in the required places at the required prices. They do not involve a £1 billion project for renationalisation or reregulation. The Labour Party had eight years—10 years, in fact—in which it could have reregulated, but for whatever reason it chose not to do so. We need therefore to ask whether Labour’s commitment is genuine.
If that is Labour’s position—which is sometimes hard to work out—how can it be that the 17 per cent cut that Elaine Murray mentioned is causing all those things to happen while a 27 per cent cut to bus services by the Labour Party in Wales is apparently not causing such chaos? There is a fundamental inconsistency in that.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02639, in the name of Elaine Murray, on transport. I advise members that the debate is tig...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
Scottish Labour selected the topic of bus services for a debate on 26 January. We bring it back for discussion today because, in the intervening 12 weeks, th...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
For what purpose did the member ask for that if Labour is not considering changing the present situation?
Elaine Murray
Lab
For the purpose of considering what is said in evidence to the Finance Committee. It is necessary to assess all the evidence. Mr Neil misquoted me—anyone can...
The Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure and Capital Investment (Alex Neil)
SNP
As it is clear that the member watched “Sunday Politics Scotland”, will she answer the question that Mr Baker could not answer and tell us what Labour would ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
Mr Baker answered the cabinet secretary’s question; indeed, Mr Rennie answered it, too, but the cabinet secretary was too busy shouting over them to listen t...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Will the member take another intervention?
Elaine Murray
Lab
No—I will get on.The budget has returned to £192 million this year, where it will remain for the rest of the spending review period, according to the spendin...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member agree with Ellis Thorpe, the Labour candidate for Inverurie and district, who said in The Press and Journal on 4 April:“Arguably the problem ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I do not even know whether that quote is about the BSOG. If it is about the BSOG, I disagree with it, so that is fine.Paul Thomas, the managing director of F...
The Minister for Housing and Transport (Keith Brown)
SNP
The member mentions other parties. Tim O’Toole, the chief executive of FirstGroup, has said that“underlying weakness ... led to this performance”.He identifi...
Elaine Murray
Lab
If the minister bothered to read our motion, he would see that we identify any number of factors, of which the BSOG is one. I am giving him the evidence on t...
The Minister for Housing and Transport (Keith Brown)
SNP
As Elaine Murray said, the previous debate that we had on buses was held in Parliament on 26 January 2012. At that time, we had a fairly wide-ranging discuss...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
I want to correct the minister. Willie Rennie stated on “Sunday Politics Scotland”, and my amendment states, that consequentials of some £7 million this year...
Keith Brown
SNP
I have lost track of the number of times that the Liberal Democrats have spent the consequentials that have been allocated.It is important to acknowledge tha...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
What has happened in Wales is a matter for the Welsh Assembly. The Welsh Government has listened to the concerns about the cut in the grant there and imposed...
Keith Brown
SNP
I have different information. I read a publication this week that stated:“Labour meanwhile blames the SNP for bus cuts and pretends that it would end deregul...
Elaine Murray
Lab
Will the member give way?
Keith Brown
SNP
I will let the member in once I have made some progress. I have mentioned the £85 million and the £1 billion. Labour has not identified one penny of the mone...
Elaine Murray
Lab
Can the minister give me the source of the quote that he read out about Wales?
Keith Brown
SNP
The source is this week’s edition of Private Eye. I will give the member a copy if she likes. Laughter. Obviously, those on the Labour benches are avid reade...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The minister is two thirds of the way through his speech and has so far shown no empathy whatsoever for the people who are affected by the service cuts. What...
Keith Brown
SNP
I might have done that if I had not been intervened on so much, so I am happy to get to that point.Some of the coverage in the papers has been disappointing....
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
Earlier in the year, when bus operators were still coming to terms with the proposed 17 per cent cut to the bus service operators grant, they were informed o...
Alex Neil
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jim Hume
LD
I have hardly started, but I am always delighted to take an intervention from Alex Neil.
Alex Neil
SNP
Will the member join me in asking the UK Government to reverse the crazy decision that was announced in the budget to have a further hike in fuel duty from 1...
Jim Hume
LD
I do not think that the bus operators would agree with that. First and Stagecoach have highlighted that the change to grant funding has major implications in...
Mark McDonald
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jim Hume
LD
I have hardly started.Apparently, environmental reasons are the rationale behind the move. That is what we have been told. In January, the minister stated th...