Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 May 2012
24 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill
I have to say that I do not agree with the cabinet secretary because I do not think that Labour’s pitiful opposition to the bill is a fig leaf so much as it is a tea leaf. Last year, caffeine was the smokescreen; now—suddenly—Labour members are all really worried that supermarkets are going to have plenty of money. We have now heard from Mr Pearson that it is really electoralism that is at the heart of the opposition, given his comments on the poll in The Scotsman. I take it that he meant 93 per cent rather than 93 respondents out of 15,000.
Today we have heard from the Labour Party curmudgeonly and desperate speeches that were mainly unenthusiastic, and I doubt that many Labour back benchers are tripping over themselves to press their buttons against the bill tonight. The reality is that there is opposition to this bill because it has been promoted by the Scottish National Party. That is what SNP members believe and, I think, that is what other members in this chamber believe. That really appears to be it.
Richard Simpson and Graeme Pearson will not be very popular with their former colleagues—in the national health service and in the police respectively—because the people who are on the front line—those who have to deal with Scotland’s alcohol problem—are not only the families of people who misuse alcohol, not only their friends and their workmates, but the police officers who have to face the problem day in and day out and the NHS professionals who have to deal with it. The bill is overwhelmingly supported by groups including the churches, the British Medical Association, the police, and charities here, there and everywhere because it is the right thing to do for the people of Scotland.
As Jackson Carlaw pointed out on the nonsense about supermarkets, if the bill is successful income to supermarkets will decline markedly. We have to look at what the bill is ultimately trying to do. I studied economics at university; a rule of economics is that as price goes up, consumption goes down. Harmful drinkers will have fewer instances of ill health as a result of that drop in consumption. That is what the study says.
My colleague Bob Doris hit the nail on the head: the bill is really about saving lives, saving people from illness, saving families from domestic breakup, and saving people from losing their jobs. That is why we are doing it. I am pleased that when the Labour Party in North Ayrshire controlled the council, which it did up until 3 May—I am glad to say that it is now an SNP council—it had the courage to support the SNP Government on the bill. Perhaps that was because the number of alcohol-related deaths in North Ayrshire—the area that my constituency of Cunninghame North is in—is 91 per cent higher than the Scottish average. The problem is particularly acute there.
The more that people drink, the greater the risk of health and social problems. That impacts directly on healthcare services, on the criminal justice system and on our wider economy. Let us appreciate what we are trying to do. As the cabinet secretary said, the framework for action contains 40 measures in addition to minimum pricing. Minimum pricing has for our party never been the sole way forward—we can do so many other things for the people of Scotland in this area and we are doing them. However, minimum pricing is a keystone—it is fundamental to the bill. Many years from now, it will be like the Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Act 2005. The Conservatives opposed it at the time, but I believe that they realise on reflection that perhaps they should not have opposed it.
Our passing the bill will make today a great day for the Scottish Parliament. The bill will take Scotland forward socially and it will help to change the culture that so many members have spoken about. I welcome the bill and I am pleased that it will be supported by an overwhelming majority of members of Parliament and of organisations that have to deal with the scourge of alcohol on a day-to-day basis.
16:23
Today we have heard from the Labour Party curmudgeonly and desperate speeches that were mainly unenthusiastic, and I doubt that many Labour back benchers are tripping over themselves to press their buttons against the bill tonight. The reality is that there is opposition to this bill because it has been promoted by the Scottish National Party. That is what SNP members believe and, I think, that is what other members in this chamber believe. That really appears to be it.
Richard Simpson and Graeme Pearson will not be very popular with their former colleagues—in the national health service and in the police respectively—because the people who are on the front line—those who have to deal with Scotland’s alcohol problem—are not only the families of people who misuse alcohol, not only their friends and their workmates, but the police officers who have to face the problem day in and day out and the NHS professionals who have to deal with it. The bill is overwhelmingly supported by groups including the churches, the British Medical Association, the police, and charities here, there and everywhere because it is the right thing to do for the people of Scotland.
As Jackson Carlaw pointed out on the nonsense about supermarkets, if the bill is successful income to supermarkets will decline markedly. We have to look at what the bill is ultimately trying to do. I studied economics at university; a rule of economics is that as price goes up, consumption goes down. Harmful drinkers will have fewer instances of ill health as a result of that drop in consumption. That is what the study says.
My colleague Bob Doris hit the nail on the head: the bill is really about saving lives, saving people from illness, saving families from domestic breakup, and saving people from losing their jobs. That is why we are doing it. I am pleased that when the Labour Party in North Ayrshire controlled the council, which it did up until 3 May—I am glad to say that it is now an SNP council—it had the courage to support the SNP Government on the bill. Perhaps that was because the number of alcohol-related deaths in North Ayrshire—the area that my constituency of Cunninghame North is in—is 91 per cent higher than the Scottish average. The problem is particularly acute there.
The more that people drink, the greater the risk of health and social problems. That impacts directly on healthcare services, on the criminal justice system and on our wider economy. Let us appreciate what we are trying to do. As the cabinet secretary said, the framework for action contains 40 measures in addition to minimum pricing. Minimum pricing has for our party never been the sole way forward—we can do so many other things for the people of Scotland in this area and we are doing them. However, minimum pricing is a keystone—it is fundamental to the bill. Many years from now, it will be like the Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Act 2005. The Conservatives opposed it at the time, but I believe that they realise on reflection that perhaps they should not have opposed it.
Our passing the bill will make today a great day for the Scottish Parliament. The bill will take Scotland forward socially and it will help to change the culture that so many members have spoken about. I welcome the bill and I am pleased that it will be supported by an overwhelming majority of members of Parliament and of organisations that have to deal with the scourge of alcohol on a day-to-day basis.
16:23
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02967, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I call on Nicola...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Alcohol (M...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
If Jackie Baillie wants to comment on Diane Abbott’s support for the Scottish Government, I will be delighted to take an intervention.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for her generosity. First it was the First Minister, and now the Deputy First Minister is following Diane Abbott. I am delighte...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
What Jackie Baillie does not tell members is that, before saying that, Yvette Cooper said that she supported minimum pricing. That is the position of Yvette ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, welcome the opportunity to participate in the stage 3 debate on minimum pricing, and I too record my thanks to all involved.Throughout the passage of...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Could the member briefly examine whether that figure of 25 per cent is a mean figure across the country? I doubt that it is. I am sure that there are areas o...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I think that the figure varies by income, which I think is the point that the member is making. I am sure that people will look forward to drinking more with...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am afraid that the member is running out of time.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
—of large supermarkets at the expense of hard-working public services.I move amendment S4M-02967.1, to insert at end:“but, in so doing, strongly believes tha...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Today is a significant day. Alcohol minimum unit pricing has been the centre of debate in the current session and the previous session of Parliament, almost ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of four minutes.16:06
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
The arguments against minimum pricing on the basis of potential supermarket profits or increased revenues have been well and truly exposed this afternoon as ...
Margo MacDonald
Ind
I wonder if the member would like to answer a question for me. What does he see as the result of this measure? Does he see everyone drinking a little less or...
Bob Doris
SNP
It is not how I see it; it is what the evidence points to, which is that the most harmful drinkers will be most affected by these measures. That is what the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Yes.
Bob Doris
SNP
Oh dear. I will be brief.The health benefits of minimum pricing differ according to which group we are talking about. It is said that minimum pricing will ha...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I am grateful to be able to speak in the debate, given that I am not a member of the Health and Sport Committee.I want to look at the bill in a slightly diff...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Jackie Baillie for covering most of the ground on the thinking behind Labour’s approach to the bill. Equally, I thank Sandra White and Bob Doris, who...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The member has no time. He has precisely 10 seconds left.
Graeme Pearson
Lab
I support the amendment in Jackie Baillie’s name.16:19
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I have to say that I do not agree with the cabinet secretary because I do not think that Labour’s pitiful opposition to the bill is a fig leaf so much as it ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
I thank Nicola Sturgeon for pioneering the bill. It is pioneering legislation and she is out there in front, proposing a measure that a lot of people will no...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As a member of the Health and Sport Committee, I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. Alcohol minimum pricing is the latest step to change the dri...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I am very pleased that we are introducing minimum pricing of alcohol. The Scottish Greens have supported the bill in this session and we supported the simila...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate that we have had, I welcome the bill and I welcome the fact that, at 5 o’clock tonight, it will become the law of Scotland. I also welco...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
This has been a short but slightly depressing debate in the sense that, even at this late stage, the argument about the bill has continued even though, after...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
In 2001, as the Deputy Minister for Justice, I recognised that Scotland had a growing problem with alcohol and that we were well into the third wave in our h...