Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 May 2012
24 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Languages (Improving Opportunities)
Yes. I do not deny that for a minute. However, the point that the language teachers are making is that it enhances pupils’ ability to learn the structures of another language if they have the competence in English in the first place. We must be very careful about that, because it is a point that they all make. It is an important issue.
As Neil Findlay pointed out, there has been a very substantial decline in the number of foreign language assistants. I do not think that we can sit back and simply accept that. I understand that there are huge financial pressures on local authorities and that it is very difficult for them to ensure that they can provide employment for those people, but let me suggest two things that we might consider doing.
First, there is a huge wealth of talent among our retired teachers of languages in schools. I do not believe that we cannot use their expertise and services by asking them to help in classrooms as assistants, especially when many of them are willing to do that. We should also at least pursue the opportunity presented by the fact that some people in business—particularly those who are key in the export industries—might be prepared to put a little money into helping to provide language assistants in our classrooms. The Government would do well to look at that.
The curriculum must have a firm and renewed focus, so that sufficient time is made available for teaching languages. We should be under no illusion about the logistics involved in that. How often have we heard teachers complain that their subject has been diluted in recent years because they have had to share a timetable space or to miss out on pupil contact time in specific year groups—for example, by providing one social science in secondary 1 and another social science in S2? As has been mentioned, we must not forget that coming into the equation is the Scottish Government’s policy on Scottish studies, for example, for which additional space must be found. There are plenty of practical things to think about. We must ensure that enough curriculum space is available and that course content has sufficient rigour.
A not unrelated issue is the role that languages can play in university entrance and ensuring that appropriate credit is given to languages in the group of qualifications with which a student seeks a place at university. Some of the decline in the number of pupils who sit SQA exams in languages began at the same time as fewer universities required pupils to have an additional language in their S4 and S5 exam diet. When we are debating the merits of a baccalaureate system, there is an opportunity to look at how that might play out in relation to university entrance.
I have no difficulty with the broad aims of the Scottish Government’s proposals. Addressing the languages problem is long overdue, but the policy needs to be carefully thought through so that we do not just pay lip service to a worthy ambition. There must be consistency, a methodical and rigorous approach and the necessary practical adjustments to the timetable to make the aim happen.
I have pleasure in moving amendment S4M-03004.2, to insert at end:
“, but recognises that this ambitious programme cannot be achieved without renewed focus on the training of qualified foreign language teachers and without substantially increasing the number of foreign language assistants in Scotland’s schools.”
As Neil Findlay pointed out, there has been a very substantial decline in the number of foreign language assistants. I do not think that we can sit back and simply accept that. I understand that there are huge financial pressures on local authorities and that it is very difficult for them to ensure that they can provide employment for those people, but let me suggest two things that we might consider doing.
First, there is a huge wealth of talent among our retired teachers of languages in schools. I do not believe that we cannot use their expertise and services by asking them to help in classrooms as assistants, especially when many of them are willing to do that. We should also at least pursue the opportunity presented by the fact that some people in business—particularly those who are key in the export industries—might be prepared to put a little money into helping to provide language assistants in our classrooms. The Government would do well to look at that.
The curriculum must have a firm and renewed focus, so that sufficient time is made available for teaching languages. We should be under no illusion about the logistics involved in that. How often have we heard teachers complain that their subject has been diluted in recent years because they have had to share a timetable space or to miss out on pupil contact time in specific year groups—for example, by providing one social science in secondary 1 and another social science in S2? As has been mentioned, we must not forget that coming into the equation is the Scottish Government’s policy on Scottish studies, for example, for which additional space must be found. There are plenty of practical things to think about. We must ensure that enough curriculum space is available and that course content has sufficient rigour.
A not unrelated issue is the role that languages can play in university entrance and ensuring that appropriate credit is given to languages in the group of qualifications with which a student seeks a place at university. Some of the decline in the number of pupils who sit SQA exams in languages began at the same time as fewer universities required pupils to have an additional language in their S4 and S5 exam diet. When we are debating the merits of a baccalaureate system, there is an opportunity to look at how that might play out in relation to university entrance.
I have no difficulty with the broad aims of the Scottish Government’s proposals. Addressing the languages problem is long overdue, but the policy needs to be carefully thought through so that we do not just pay lip service to a worthy ambition. There must be consistency, a methodical and rigorous approach and the necessary practical adjustments to the timetable to make the aim happen.
I have pleasure in moving amendment S4M-03004.2, to insert at end:
“, but recognises that this ambitious programme cannot be achieved without renewed focus on the training of qualified foreign language teachers and without substantially increasing the number of foreign language assistants in Scotland’s schools.”
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03004, in the name of Alasdair Allan, on why languages matter—improving young people’s opportunities.09:16
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)
SNP
Bonjour. Guten Tag. I am delighted to open the debate on why languages matter—improving young people’s opportunities. This is a welcome opportunity to discus...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the key messages in the report. The report says that in most European countries children start to learn a second language between the ages of six a...
Dr Allan
SNP
I thank the member for that considered point. The situation varies very much not just from country to country, but from school to school. We would be realist...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Will the minister take an intervention?
Dr Allan
SNP
I have just taken one. Give me a moment.
Liam McArthur
LD
It is on that point.
Dr Allan
SNP
Well, why not?
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank the minister for relenting. My comment relates to Malcolm’s Chisholm’s point. A lot of the evidence suggests that, by the time that children reach th...
Dr Allan
SNP
I readily agree with that. The younger that we introduce language learning, the more receptive children are likely to be to it. Implementation of the recomme...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Dr Allan
SNP
I am in my last minute.In the meantime, we will provide £120,000 to fund pilot projects to be run in the 2012-13 school year by Education Scotland and Scotla...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Before I call Neil Findlay, I ask members who speak in a second language during the debate—I do not mean just saying “Bonjour” or “Guten Tag”—to provide a tr...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Merci, Presiding Officer. I can provide that to the official report if you require, but I do not think that I will worry the interpreters much more in my spe...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In recent weeks politicians, including many in this Parliament, have been on the receiving end of some very blunt advice from employers in Scotland, much of ...
Dr Allan
SNP
I appreciate many of the sentiments that the member has expressed. On her last point, does she also agree that, for pupils who are perhaps challenged by lite...
Liz Smith
Con
Yes. I do not deny that for a minute. However, the point that the language teachers are making is that it enhances pupils’ ability to learn the structures of...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We have a bit of time in hand for the open debate, so members will have a generous six minutes for speeches. If members take interventions, I am sure that we...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
Members will be delighted to hear that I will attempt no linguistic feats—it took me long enough to rehearse my affirmation last year. I have enough difficul...
Neil Findlay
Lab
As the member will know, we are about to have the Eurovision song contest, so maybe his horizons will be expanded.
Marco Biagi
SNP
As a passionate Eurovision fan—that might not come as a surprise—I can say that it is noticeable that since the language restrictions of the 1990s, whereby a...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I remind members that I will give them a generous six minutes. I call Claudia Beamish.09:54
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. If I translated my speech into French, I would need a lot longer than your generous six minutes.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Feel free.
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I will stick to my own language. I rise today to speak in support of the Government’s motion and our amendment, which concern the ambition to improve the opp...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to take part in the debate. Many members in the chamber already know of my passion for language learning and how knowledge of languages certai...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
When I was listening to Claudia Beamish’s closing comments about Italian, I was taken back to the time when I studied in France and Germany. As a vegetarian ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
You have seven minutes.
Stuart McMillan
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. In the time that I have, I have struggled to cut down some of my real-life experiences that show why languages matter but, towa...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Folk have talked about exchange trips, but it strikes me, as I listen to the debate, that people do not take advantage of what we have here at this moment. W...