Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 May 2012
24 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Languages (Improving Opportunities)
Merci, Presiding Officer. I can provide that to the official report if you require, but I do not think that I will worry the interpreters much more in my speech.
Even though I, like tens of thousands of Scots, am able, when the occasion demands it, to drag up from the darkest depths of my memory some limited, pidgin French that I can use when on holiday in France to find the nearest bistro, brasserie, vineyard or football match—take your choice—Ianguages largely passed me by. That is a situation that affects all too many of us. I am afraid that my only language skills are in industrial language. I am not certified, but I reckon that I could be at PhD level in it.
Scottish Labour supports the sentiments of what the Government is proposing. However, far be it from me to indulge in a sterile debate or a round of ministerial back slapping. We support the principles of extending language provision, but we see a number of areas that require further scrutiny. We will, of course, offer constructive advice where we see fit. As the minister and his team know, the Labour education team is always willing to offer help to the Government.
I thank and commend the Scottish languages working group for a laudable and potentially important contribution to what is a vital debate about languages and language teaching in Scotland’s schools. On page six of the report, the group states:
“Language learning is life enhancing. It opens the doors to possibilities and experiences which are not available to those who are restricted to the knowledge of one language ... Through learning new languages young people can become successful learners with opportunities relating to working and travelling abroad”.
I think that we would all agree with those sentiments.
How many times have many of us, while abroad on holiday, on business or for whatever reason, suffered in embarrassed silence due to our inability to communicate in the language of the country that we are visiting? That individual deficiency is bad enough, but the working group also estimates that our failure to teach languages in a comprehensive and universal fashion amounts to what one commentator said last week is a language tax that costs the Scottish economy £500 million. For economic, educational and cultural reasons, it is abundantly clear that we have to become more multilingual.
The working group has made some positive recommendations. The 1+2 suggestion of having primary school children learn a language other than English from P1 and another by P5 is one that we support. As the minister said, it fits the model that exists across Europe. If implemented effectively, it has the potential to transform our ability to communicate, with the obvious knock-on benefits that that will have.
However, we have some concerns and, to be fair, we are not the only ones. The working group itself stated that, in relation to current language teaching in primary schools,
“there are concerns that some primary children do not have access to an additional language due to staffing, training or funding issues, or other perceived curricular priorities.”
Anecdotal evidence suggests that, at present, language provision in primary schools is often ad hoc and inconsistent due to those pressures and others. Such issues are raised repeatedly, not just in relation to language provision but in other areas of the school curriculum.
We need to look at the proposals against the background of the realities that schools today face. We have to remember that there are widespread and sustained cuts in the public sector, including in education. Since 2007, that has manifested itself in nearly 4,000 teaching posts being lost across Scotland. Many newly qualified teachers who perhaps have the necessary language skills cannot get work, and supply teaching is in crisis in some areas. The rector of a school in my area, for example, told me that their school had been down one modern language teacher for around six months, I think, and could not get supply cover.
The number of foreign language assistants is down from 300 in 2005-06 to just 59 in 2011-12. The languages working group said that foreign language assistants
“will have a key role to play in successful implementation of a 1+2 policy.”
The minister did not mention language assistants. In summing up, will he confirm how work with the British Council and others will ensure that more foreign language assistants will be introduced back into our schools?
What about the cost of and funding for the roll-out? The minister mentioned that, in 2008, £4 million was given to local authorities to support language provision. Funding has been rolled up into general local government settlements, but the working group stated:
“if delivery of the 1+2 language policy is to be successful, further dedicated resources will be required.”
How will those dedicated resources be provided? Funding of £4 million seems rather a small amount in light of our challenge. We need more information on that.
The working group acknowledged the need to upskill teachers and for a commitment to extensive continuing professional development. It stated:
“There will be significant organisational, resource and staffing issues from Primary 1 onwards ... There will need to be sufficient numbers of primary teachers, appropriately trained, confident and competent in language teaching.”
Information on how that matter will be addressed was largely absent from the minister’s opening statement.
From our discussions with the teaching profession, we know that it understands fully the need for a major training initiative to implement such a programme, but there is, of course, a big resource issue. What commitment is there to provide the funding for the teachers and training that will be needed for the national roll-out to be successful, should the pilots be so? Since the announcement was made, I have spoken to many teachers and a number of young people about their experiences of learning a language in primary and secondary school. The constant theme is exposure to languages too late and a lack of consistency from primary through to secondary school. I agree that we need to catch young people early in their education and that they need to be immersed in the language, not drip-fed.
Currently, many pupils in secondary school end their language experience in second year. That is especially true of boys, who largely opt out of taking languages. As we already know, the number of pupils who take highers in the main languages is decreasing, and for languages such as German the decline is significant. If the proposals are to work, consideration will have to be given to how schools offer subjects and how they will manage an already crowded curriculum, which will become even more crowded when Scottish studies comes on stream. In his summing up, perhaps the minister can say how those issues will be addressed.
We are concentrating on schools, but there are other missed opportunities for developing language skills in Scotland. Many people want to learn a language later in life, because of experiences in business or on holiday for example. My father-in-law is fluent in French and he began to learn it only 10 years ago. That was because of experiences that he had later in life. We should consider enabling people to learn throughout their lives through workplace learning, for example.
Finally, will the minister clarify what plans the Government has for the pilot schemes? How will they be monitored and evaluated? When does the minister plan to publish details of them? I urge that, when he establishes the pilot areas, he makes them broad and representative. By that, I mean that they should take in urban and rural schools—as there are particular issues, in respect of supply teaching for example, for rural schools—primary and secondary schools, and schools in areas with very different socioeconomic indicators, not least because, as the working group stated,
“the biggest educational challenge faced by legislators and educators alike is in raising educational attainment for children in areas of high social deprivation.”
To conclude, I reiterate our broad support for the objectives of the policy. The points that we have raised have been raised in good faith, and we all want to see the policy succeed.
I move amendment S4M-03004.1, to leave out from “supports” to end and insert:
“acknowledges the decline in language course take-up in secondary schools; recognises that developing language skills from an early age is best supported by well-trained teachers and language assistants; notes that the numbers of both have reduced significantly since 2007, and calls on the Scottish Government to identify how any future roll-out of the proposed pilot projects would be funded to allow all young people to start learning a second language from primary 1.”
09:39
Even though I, like tens of thousands of Scots, am able, when the occasion demands it, to drag up from the darkest depths of my memory some limited, pidgin French that I can use when on holiday in France to find the nearest bistro, brasserie, vineyard or football match—take your choice—Ianguages largely passed me by. That is a situation that affects all too many of us. I am afraid that my only language skills are in industrial language. I am not certified, but I reckon that I could be at PhD level in it.
Scottish Labour supports the sentiments of what the Government is proposing. However, far be it from me to indulge in a sterile debate or a round of ministerial back slapping. We support the principles of extending language provision, but we see a number of areas that require further scrutiny. We will, of course, offer constructive advice where we see fit. As the minister and his team know, the Labour education team is always willing to offer help to the Government.
I thank and commend the Scottish languages working group for a laudable and potentially important contribution to what is a vital debate about languages and language teaching in Scotland’s schools. On page six of the report, the group states:
“Language learning is life enhancing. It opens the doors to possibilities and experiences which are not available to those who are restricted to the knowledge of one language ... Through learning new languages young people can become successful learners with opportunities relating to working and travelling abroad”.
I think that we would all agree with those sentiments.
How many times have many of us, while abroad on holiday, on business or for whatever reason, suffered in embarrassed silence due to our inability to communicate in the language of the country that we are visiting? That individual deficiency is bad enough, but the working group also estimates that our failure to teach languages in a comprehensive and universal fashion amounts to what one commentator said last week is a language tax that costs the Scottish economy £500 million. For economic, educational and cultural reasons, it is abundantly clear that we have to become more multilingual.
The working group has made some positive recommendations. The 1+2 suggestion of having primary school children learn a language other than English from P1 and another by P5 is one that we support. As the minister said, it fits the model that exists across Europe. If implemented effectively, it has the potential to transform our ability to communicate, with the obvious knock-on benefits that that will have.
However, we have some concerns and, to be fair, we are not the only ones. The working group itself stated that, in relation to current language teaching in primary schools,
“there are concerns that some primary children do not have access to an additional language due to staffing, training or funding issues, or other perceived curricular priorities.”
Anecdotal evidence suggests that, at present, language provision in primary schools is often ad hoc and inconsistent due to those pressures and others. Such issues are raised repeatedly, not just in relation to language provision but in other areas of the school curriculum.
We need to look at the proposals against the background of the realities that schools today face. We have to remember that there are widespread and sustained cuts in the public sector, including in education. Since 2007, that has manifested itself in nearly 4,000 teaching posts being lost across Scotland. Many newly qualified teachers who perhaps have the necessary language skills cannot get work, and supply teaching is in crisis in some areas. The rector of a school in my area, for example, told me that their school had been down one modern language teacher for around six months, I think, and could not get supply cover.
The number of foreign language assistants is down from 300 in 2005-06 to just 59 in 2011-12. The languages working group said that foreign language assistants
“will have a key role to play in successful implementation of a 1+2 policy.”
The minister did not mention language assistants. In summing up, will he confirm how work with the British Council and others will ensure that more foreign language assistants will be introduced back into our schools?
What about the cost of and funding for the roll-out? The minister mentioned that, in 2008, £4 million was given to local authorities to support language provision. Funding has been rolled up into general local government settlements, but the working group stated:
“if delivery of the 1+2 language policy is to be successful, further dedicated resources will be required.”
How will those dedicated resources be provided? Funding of £4 million seems rather a small amount in light of our challenge. We need more information on that.
The working group acknowledged the need to upskill teachers and for a commitment to extensive continuing professional development. It stated:
“There will be significant organisational, resource and staffing issues from Primary 1 onwards ... There will need to be sufficient numbers of primary teachers, appropriately trained, confident and competent in language teaching.”
Information on how that matter will be addressed was largely absent from the minister’s opening statement.
From our discussions with the teaching profession, we know that it understands fully the need for a major training initiative to implement such a programme, but there is, of course, a big resource issue. What commitment is there to provide the funding for the teachers and training that will be needed for the national roll-out to be successful, should the pilots be so? Since the announcement was made, I have spoken to many teachers and a number of young people about their experiences of learning a language in primary and secondary school. The constant theme is exposure to languages too late and a lack of consistency from primary through to secondary school. I agree that we need to catch young people early in their education and that they need to be immersed in the language, not drip-fed.
Currently, many pupils in secondary school end their language experience in second year. That is especially true of boys, who largely opt out of taking languages. As we already know, the number of pupils who take highers in the main languages is decreasing, and for languages such as German the decline is significant. If the proposals are to work, consideration will have to be given to how schools offer subjects and how they will manage an already crowded curriculum, which will become even more crowded when Scottish studies comes on stream. In his summing up, perhaps the minister can say how those issues will be addressed.
We are concentrating on schools, but there are other missed opportunities for developing language skills in Scotland. Many people want to learn a language later in life, because of experiences in business or on holiday for example. My father-in-law is fluent in French and he began to learn it only 10 years ago. That was because of experiences that he had later in life. We should consider enabling people to learn throughout their lives through workplace learning, for example.
Finally, will the minister clarify what plans the Government has for the pilot schemes? How will they be monitored and evaluated? When does the minister plan to publish details of them? I urge that, when he establishes the pilot areas, he makes them broad and representative. By that, I mean that they should take in urban and rural schools—as there are particular issues, in respect of supply teaching for example, for rural schools—primary and secondary schools, and schools in areas with very different socioeconomic indicators, not least because, as the working group stated,
“the biggest educational challenge faced by legislators and educators alike is in raising educational attainment for children in areas of high social deprivation.”
To conclude, I reiterate our broad support for the objectives of the policy. The points that we have raised have been raised in good faith, and we all want to see the policy succeed.
I move amendment S4M-03004.1, to leave out from “supports” to end and insert:
“acknowledges the decline in language course take-up in secondary schools; recognises that developing language skills from an early age is best supported by well-trained teachers and language assistants; notes that the numbers of both have reduced significantly since 2007, and calls on the Scottish Government to identify how any future roll-out of the proposed pilot projects would be funded to allow all young people to start learning a second language from primary 1.”
09:39
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03004, in the name of Alasdair Allan, on why languages matter—improving young people’s opportunities.09:16
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)
SNP
Bonjour. Guten Tag. I am delighted to open the debate on why languages matter—improving young people’s opportunities. This is a welcome opportunity to discus...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the key messages in the report. The report says that in most European countries children start to learn a second language between the ages of six a...
Dr Allan
SNP
I thank the member for that considered point. The situation varies very much not just from country to country, but from school to school. We would be realist...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Will the minister take an intervention?
Dr Allan
SNP
I have just taken one. Give me a moment.
Liam McArthur
LD
It is on that point.
Dr Allan
SNP
Well, why not?
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank the minister for relenting. My comment relates to Malcolm’s Chisholm’s point. A lot of the evidence suggests that, by the time that children reach th...
Dr Allan
SNP
I readily agree with that. The younger that we introduce language learning, the more receptive children are likely to be to it. Implementation of the recomme...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Dr Allan
SNP
I am in my last minute.In the meantime, we will provide £120,000 to fund pilot projects to be run in the 2012-13 school year by Education Scotland and Scotla...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Before I call Neil Findlay, I ask members who speak in a second language during the debate—I do not mean just saying “Bonjour” or “Guten Tag”—to provide a tr...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Merci, Presiding Officer. I can provide that to the official report if you require, but I do not think that I will worry the interpreters much more in my spe...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In recent weeks politicians, including many in this Parliament, have been on the receiving end of some very blunt advice from employers in Scotland, much of ...
Dr Allan
SNP
I appreciate many of the sentiments that the member has expressed. On her last point, does she also agree that, for pupils who are perhaps challenged by lite...
Liz Smith
Con
Yes. I do not deny that for a minute. However, the point that the language teachers are making is that it enhances pupils’ ability to learn the structures of...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We have a bit of time in hand for the open debate, so members will have a generous six minutes for speeches. If members take interventions, I am sure that we...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
Members will be delighted to hear that I will attempt no linguistic feats—it took me long enough to rehearse my affirmation last year. I have enough difficul...
Neil Findlay
Lab
As the member will know, we are about to have the Eurovision song contest, so maybe his horizons will be expanded.
Marco Biagi
SNP
As a passionate Eurovision fan—that might not come as a surprise—I can say that it is noticeable that since the language restrictions of the 1990s, whereby a...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I remind members that I will give them a generous six minutes. I call Claudia Beamish.09:54
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. If I translated my speech into French, I would need a lot longer than your generous six minutes.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Feel free.
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I will stick to my own language. I rise today to speak in support of the Government’s motion and our amendment, which concern the ambition to improve the opp...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to take part in the debate. Many members in the chamber already know of my passion for language learning and how knowledge of languages certai...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
When I was listening to Claudia Beamish’s closing comments about Italian, I was taken back to the time when I studied in France and Germany. As a vegetarian ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
You have seven minutes.
Stuart McMillan
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. In the time that I have, I have struggled to cut down some of my real-life experiences that show why languages matter but, towa...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Folk have talked about exchange trips, but it strikes me, as I listen to the debate, that people do not take advantage of what we have here at this moment. W...