Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 06 September 2012
06 Sep 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties etc) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
No, I need to make progress.
Highland Council expressed concerns about absentee landlords, the volatility of the commercial property market and the poor condition of many empty commercial properties. It is important that local authorities’ concerns are brought to the chamber today, because nobody has yet raised those concerns.
There are also issues relating to the empty homes provisions, on which we think that more detail is needed. We support the ambition of the proposals but, as Shelter has commented, we need wider support for owners of empty properties to bring properties back into use—that is critical. Some of the measures to which the minister has referred this afternoon will be helpful and we will look at them in detail.
A key issue is the cost of implementing the bill and, if the bill is to be effective in relation to empty houses, ministerial guidance will be crucial. It is not just a question of the statutory instrument. Will the minister bring draft guidance before the Parliament? Will we see it before we debate the bill in detail at stage 2? Will we see the detail of the statutory instruments before stage 2? Without that, the debate at stage 2 will be difficult to conduct because we will not have the detail that the minister will bring forward thereafter.
Waverley Housing suggested some key measures that would help to deliver the objectives of the bill. The minister has not mentioned housing association grant funding today, which we know has been slashed in the past year. Registered social landlords will need additional support if they are to buy empty houses so that they can refurbish them and rent them out. Glasgow City Council expressed concerns about the administrative costs of implementing the empty homes proposals and argued for enforced sale procedures to enable it to buy empty properties and bring them back into use. Fife Council argued that real consideration is needed of the administration and the ability to collect the charges that will be levied. It is concerned that the charges will be difficult to collect from some owners of empty properties. Those issues will need to be addressed at stage 2.
Some questions remain outstanding even after the new comments that the minister has put on the record this afternoon.
If the Parliament is to be effective, we need more information from the minister before we launch into stage 2. There are a couple of weeks left and I hope that we will get a detailed written response to the recommendations that were made.
I reread the evidence last night and it is clear that there is support for the ambition of bringing empty properties back into use, but also that there is no agreement. In fact, there are deep worries that some of the elements of the bill will make matters worse. The lack of a BRIA has added to that concern.
At stage 2, we will attempt to amend the bill and to be constructive, as the minister has encouraged us to be. However, without detailed knowledge of the Government’s position in advance of stage 2, it is difficult for Opposition parties to come up with detailed proposals on such a short enabling bill.
Many respondents expressed their support for the principles of the bill, but the detail will be crucial. The fact that, two months after the committee reported, we do not have a response from the Government is a problem. We want to see the details. I hope that the minister will publish his response before stage 2. That would mean that we would have a meaningful debate.
This debate is an opportunity for the minister to answer more of the questions that were raised during the Conservative Party debate in June and by the three committees that have reported on the bill. I hope that he will take that opportunity in his closing speech.
Highland Council expressed concerns about absentee landlords, the volatility of the commercial property market and the poor condition of many empty commercial properties. It is important that local authorities’ concerns are brought to the chamber today, because nobody has yet raised those concerns.
There are also issues relating to the empty homes provisions, on which we think that more detail is needed. We support the ambition of the proposals but, as Shelter has commented, we need wider support for owners of empty properties to bring properties back into use—that is critical. Some of the measures to which the minister has referred this afternoon will be helpful and we will look at them in detail.
A key issue is the cost of implementing the bill and, if the bill is to be effective in relation to empty houses, ministerial guidance will be crucial. It is not just a question of the statutory instrument. Will the minister bring draft guidance before the Parliament? Will we see it before we debate the bill in detail at stage 2? Will we see the detail of the statutory instruments before stage 2? Without that, the debate at stage 2 will be difficult to conduct because we will not have the detail that the minister will bring forward thereafter.
Waverley Housing suggested some key measures that would help to deliver the objectives of the bill. The minister has not mentioned housing association grant funding today, which we know has been slashed in the past year. Registered social landlords will need additional support if they are to buy empty houses so that they can refurbish them and rent them out. Glasgow City Council expressed concerns about the administrative costs of implementing the empty homes proposals and argued for enforced sale procedures to enable it to buy empty properties and bring them back into use. Fife Council argued that real consideration is needed of the administration and the ability to collect the charges that will be levied. It is concerned that the charges will be difficult to collect from some owners of empty properties. Those issues will need to be addressed at stage 2.
Some questions remain outstanding even after the new comments that the minister has put on the record this afternoon.
If the Parliament is to be effective, we need more information from the minister before we launch into stage 2. There are a couple of weeks left and I hope that we will get a detailed written response to the recommendations that were made.
I reread the evidence last night and it is clear that there is support for the ambition of bringing empty properties back into use, but also that there is no agreement. In fact, there are deep worries that some of the elements of the bill will make matters worse. The lack of a BRIA has added to that concern.
At stage 2, we will attempt to amend the bill and to be constructive, as the minister has encouraged us to be. However, without detailed knowledge of the Government’s position in advance of stage 2, it is difficult for Opposition parties to come up with detailed proposals on such a short enabling bill.
Many respondents expressed their support for the principles of the bill, but the detail will be crucial. The fact that, two months after the committee reported, we do not have a response from the Government is a problem. We want to see the details. I hope that the minister will publish his response before stage 2. That would mean that we would have a meaningful debate.
This debate is an opportunity for the minister to answer more of the questions that were raised during the Conservative Party debate in June and by the three committees that have reported on the bill. I hope that he will take that opportunity in his closing speech.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-03924, in the name of Derek Mackay, on the Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Propertie...
The Minister for Local Government and Planning (Derek Mackay)
SNP
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties etc) (Scotland) Bill. First, I welcome Margaret Burgess as ministe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Kevin Stewart, who is speaking on behalf of the Local Government and Regeneration Committee. Mr Stewart, you have around 10 minutes.14:41
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I thank all those who gave evidence—either written or oral—to the Local Government and Regeneration Committee, which helped us in our deliberations. I also t...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome Margaret Burgess to her new post and wish her all the best for the future. We look forward to debating with her a number of major issues in relatio...
Derek Mackay
SNP
I thank the member for taking an intervention; I understand that we have some time in hand.Rather than do a few weeks’ short-term work on a consultation abou...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
My problem is that the minister has not formally reported those conversations to us. He has given us a selection of the changes that he intends to make at st...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will Ms Boyack give way?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
No—I want to get on.The Welsh Assembly Government looked at the evidence on the impact of the non-domestic rates provisions that came into play in England an...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I need to make progress.The committee found it surprising that there had been no attempt to estimate the number of commercial properties that will be brought...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will Ms Boyack give way?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
No, I need to make progress.Highland Council expressed concerns about absentee landlords, the volatility of the commercial property market and the poor condi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I clarify that we have time for interventions if members wish to take them, but whether they do is entirely up to them.15:01
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties etc) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. The bill’s provisions fall into thre...
Derek Mackay
SNP
It is a fair comment to say that some information on the projections of the costs to the public sector was not provided to the Finance Committee, but that wa...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
That is simply indicative of what a sloppy piece of work it was. In the financial memorandum, there was mention of only 12 Government buildings and the fact ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Speak through the chair, please.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The minister did not seem to realise that it would impact on the rest of the public sector, Presiding Officer. The Government has a majority on all committee...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will Ms Mitchell give way?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
If the member does not mind, I will make some progress, because I am already almost halfway through my time.There was no formal consultation on the non-domes...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I am almost five minutes in, so it depends on how long the Presiding Officer is willing to give me. There will be ample opportunity for the minister to come ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I can give you the time back if you wish to take interventions, but it is entirely up to you.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I will wait until there is an intervention on a more substantial point.Furthermore, the financial memorandum projected an £18 million saving, which is totall...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Will the member give way?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Not just now, thank you.The underlying reason for empty commercial properties is the lack of demand and the current economic climate, as those witnesses who ...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
That approach adversely impacts on regeneration, inward investment and economic growth.
Mark McDonald
SNP
Will the member give way?