Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 June 2012
14 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
PIP Silicone Breast Implants
I first became very concerned about the issue a few weeks ago when a constituent came to one of my surgeries and showed me photographs of two breast implants that had been removed from her—one intact, the other ruptured. The contents of the ruptured implant had spread into her lymph nodes and she was experiencing great pain from lumps in that part of her body. I am pleased to report that she said that the NHS care that she received in the Western general hospital in Edinburgh was very good, but it is clear that there are inconsistencies in the NHS response throughout Scotland, to which Jackie Baillie referred.
My constituent also explained to me the shocking response that she got from the private clinic when she went to see it about the problems that had arisen. That shocking response has now become an absence of response, because the e-mail that she sent to the clinic three months ago, in which she summed up her concerns, has still received no reply, although I have recently followed up on that for her. I hope that we will hear something from the clinic soon.
My constituent also has many issues with the MHRA, the most urgent of which relates to testing of implants. I have written several letters to the MHRA and have asked for a meeting with it, because it is not willing to test the implants. Members will understand the anxiety of my constituent, given that the contents of one of those implants are still, to some extent, in her body and were in it to an even greater extent until recently. I ask the Scottish Government to continue to raise that issue with the MHRA. If the MHRA will not test the implants, I ask the Scottish Government to arrange testing.
There are two massive historical issues to do with the MHRA. First, why was it so slow to react when many clinicians pointed out problems, for which there was statistical evidence? Secondly, why did it not make more effort—indeed, it made no effort at all—to inform women once information about the use of industrial silicone became clear in March 2010? That question could also be put to the UK Government and the Scottish Government.
The Government’s amendment offers uncritical support for the UK Government’s Howe report, which I have read. I have never seen so many SNP members competing with each other to praise a UK Government report. I am sometimes more disposed to be more sympathetic to the UK Government—although not the present one—and I was highly critical of the Howe report. My views were shared by the Health Select Committee at Westminster and by its widely regarded chair, the Conservative Stephen Dorrell, who was the Secretary of State for Health when I was a Westminster MP in the 1990s. They are certainly not happy with what one might call an internal whitewash of the MHRA, and my constituent and the other women campaigners are not happy with it, either. I empathise with them and sympathise with their request for an independent look to be taken at the issue. I am sure that Michael Matheson must also have some empathy with them, as he took that view in relation to hepatitis C several years ago when I was the Minister for Health and Community Care. I am happy to admit that he was right about the need for an independent inquiry on hep C and that I was wrong.
An inquiry into breast implants would not just be about the past, as was the case with the hep C inquiry; it would also be about the future. An inquiry needs to look at regulation of private health care. The whole area, including private healthcare clinics, is a devolved responsibility of the Scottish Government. The way in which medical products are regulated and licensed also needs to be looked at. There is a procurement dimension to that, which is also a devolved responsibility. An inquiry could also consider the numbers issue that has come up.
The basic message is this: let us stand in the shoes of the women who have been affected, empathise with them and realise that they want the issue to be looked at independently.
11:13
My constituent also explained to me the shocking response that she got from the private clinic when she went to see it about the problems that had arisen. That shocking response has now become an absence of response, because the e-mail that she sent to the clinic three months ago, in which she summed up her concerns, has still received no reply, although I have recently followed up on that for her. I hope that we will hear something from the clinic soon.
My constituent also has many issues with the MHRA, the most urgent of which relates to testing of implants. I have written several letters to the MHRA and have asked for a meeting with it, because it is not willing to test the implants. Members will understand the anxiety of my constituent, given that the contents of one of those implants are still, to some extent, in her body and were in it to an even greater extent until recently. I ask the Scottish Government to continue to raise that issue with the MHRA. If the MHRA will not test the implants, I ask the Scottish Government to arrange testing.
There are two massive historical issues to do with the MHRA. First, why was it so slow to react when many clinicians pointed out problems, for which there was statistical evidence? Secondly, why did it not make more effort—indeed, it made no effort at all—to inform women once information about the use of industrial silicone became clear in March 2010? That question could also be put to the UK Government and the Scottish Government.
The Government’s amendment offers uncritical support for the UK Government’s Howe report, which I have read. I have never seen so many SNP members competing with each other to praise a UK Government report. I am sometimes more disposed to be more sympathetic to the UK Government—although not the present one—and I was highly critical of the Howe report. My views were shared by the Health Select Committee at Westminster and by its widely regarded chair, the Conservative Stephen Dorrell, who was the Secretary of State for Health when I was a Westminster MP in the 1990s. They are certainly not happy with what one might call an internal whitewash of the MHRA, and my constituent and the other women campaigners are not happy with it, either. I empathise with them and sympathise with their request for an independent look to be taken at the issue. I am sure that Michael Matheson must also have some empathy with them, as he took that view in relation to hepatitis C several years ago when I was the Minister for Health and Community Care. I am happy to admit that he was right about the need for an independent inquiry on hep C and that I was wrong.
An inquiry into breast implants would not just be about the past, as was the case with the hep C inquiry; it would also be about the future. An inquiry needs to look at regulation of private health care. The whole area, including private healthcare clinics, is a devolved responsibility of the Scottish Government. The way in which medical products are regulated and licensed also needs to be looked at. There is a procurement dimension to that, which is also a devolved responsibility. An inquiry could also consider the numbers issue that has come up.
The basic message is this: let us stand in the shoes of the women who have been affected, empathise with them and realise that they want the issue to be looked at independently.
11:13
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03294, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on women’s health.10:27
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the PIP breast implant scandal.I welcome some of the women who have been caught up in the scandal, who are here today cam...
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to have the debate. I also welcome those from the Scottish campaign group who have joined us for the debate. They have been at the ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
One of our concerns is that the second Bruce Keogh review—not the toxicology review—is on cosmetic procedures only. There are many other procedures, such as ...
Michael Matheson
SNP
The review is dealing specifically with the issues that arise from the PIP implant matter, and we should give the review group the opportunity to consider th...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank Jackie Baillie for bringing forward the debate, because although we do not agree with her conclusions on the issue we think that it is important that...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
In recognising the scale of the problem, does the member support a public inquiry being held at UK level?
Nanette Milne
Con
I will give the member my reasons for not doing so later.We must remember that silicone implants carry an inherent risk to an individual’s health. No such im...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
We are in a serious and worrying situation, so I am glad that we are having this debate. We should take the opportunity to reassure the many women out there ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I was quoting the cabinet secretary, who has consistently said that we would perhaps be safer using the upper limit, which is 4,000 women.
Fiona McLeod
SNP
Thank you, Ms Baillie. I confess that I was not at the Health and Sport Committee meeting that day—I was in hospital getting my gallbladder removed. However,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Come to a conclusion, please.
Fiona McLeod
SNP
I contend that the EU and the UK have swung too far towards self-regulation and self-policing. Given that Scotland has no voice in Europe and only a small vo...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When I first heard about the PIP silicone scandal, I was shocked. I still cannot comprehend the feelings of anguish and worry that must have been—and still a...
Margaret Burgess (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
I can only imagine the stress and anxiety that are felt by women who have PIP breast implants. For some time, they have lived with that worry day and daily. ...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, welcome members of the campaign to the chamber. However, although I have a great deal of sympathy for their situation, I am not sure that a public in...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I did not invent the 4,000 figure; it actually came from the member’s own Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy. Nevertheless, the poin...
Dennis Robertson
SNP
As I said, the 4,000 figure came from the UK Government and relates to the purchase of implants. The cabinet secretary was quite right to highlight the upper...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I first became very concerned about the issue a few weeks ago when a constituent came to one of my surgeries and showed me photographs of two breast implants...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
There has been much debate about exactly how many women in Scotland, the UK and across Europe might be affected. Those numbers remain unclear, but we can be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We turn to the closing speeches. I call Nanette Milne. You have up to five minutes.11:17
Nanette Milne
Con
This has been a worthwhile, interesting and considered debate with good speeches from members in all parts of the chamber. As I said previously, it is import...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
This is not about apportioning blame, but about learning lessons of responsibility for the after-care of the women so that the same mistakes do not happen in...
Nanette Milne
Con
I appreciate that, but I still think that the on-going work and its conclusions will satisfy.It is certainly true that we can continue to improve regulation ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Michael Matheson. I can give you around seven minutes, minister.11:22
Michael Matheson
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.It has been a useful debate. I think that, on reflection, most members would recognise that this is an issue that goes beyond pa...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Michael Matheson
SNP
I am very short of time and I want to cover as many points as I can.A number of members mentioned the introduction of a register. Some members may be aware t...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
As all members have acknowledged, this has been a useful debate, but some questions remain unanswered.Why should there be an inquiry? Why should we not just ...