Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 June 2012
14 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women’s Representation (Public Sector Boards)
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. We have had several interesting speeches, particularly from Jenny Marra, who mentioned the international aspects, which we all agree are important. For me, the issue is about more than gender equality, as there is a clear business case for increasing the number of women in decision-making positions in Scotland, not just in the public sector, but in boardrooms in the private sector. The debate is also about how we create the conditions for women to have the skills and experience that Annabel Goldie spoke about so that they can take those into decision-making positions. That is one of the issues that we need to address. We have to think not only about quotas, but about how we support women in the workplace in non-traditional industries to gather skills and experience and then make a difference.
That highlights the real issue. The debate is not just about the glass ceiling that people talk about a lot; it is about the sticky floor that affects many women. Women have to face issues to do with bringing up a family. Many expectations are placed on them and they face a lot of challenges in life, in the workplace and elsewhere, which they have to balance. Frankly, men do not have to face those issues. As well as considering quotas, we need to address those issues.
Work by the Fawcett Society has produced some key figures that show that the case for more women in senior positions in the boardroom in the public and private sectors is undeniable. Women are estimated to be responsible for about 70 per cent of household purchasing power; they make up 46 per cent of the economically active workforce; and they provide more than half of university graduates. Companies with more women on their boards have been found to outperform their rivals, with a 42 per cent higher return in sales, a 66 per cent higher return on invested capital and a 53 per cent higher return on equity. The facts and figures exist to back up the proposal. It is the right thing to do not only to ensure that we have equality, but to ensure that we have better business practice in the boardroom.
I appreciate the warm words in the Scottish Government’s amendment. There is nothing in it with which we in the Labour Party can disagree, but a consensus is building, particularly outside the Parliament, that we need to take more radical steps and action to address the issues. The world is changing and people are asking questions about the orthodoxies that have been in the workplace and industry for many years. In this debate, we are asking serious questions about what we have always accepted as the norm.
John Wilson made a point about political representation. If it was not for the fact that the Labour Party took direct action in 1999, including through our selection processes for the regional list, it is unlikely that Jenny Marra and Kezia Dugdale would be sitting on our front bench today talking about the issue. Regardless of members’ political persuasion, that shows that such decisions can work.
09:48
That highlights the real issue. The debate is not just about the glass ceiling that people talk about a lot; it is about the sticky floor that affects many women. Women have to face issues to do with bringing up a family. Many expectations are placed on them and they face a lot of challenges in life, in the workplace and elsewhere, which they have to balance. Frankly, men do not have to face those issues. As well as considering quotas, we need to address those issues.
Work by the Fawcett Society has produced some key figures that show that the case for more women in senior positions in the boardroom in the public and private sectors is undeniable. Women are estimated to be responsible for about 70 per cent of household purchasing power; they make up 46 per cent of the economically active workforce; and they provide more than half of university graduates. Companies with more women on their boards have been found to outperform their rivals, with a 42 per cent higher return in sales, a 66 per cent higher return on invested capital and a 53 per cent higher return on equity. The facts and figures exist to back up the proposal. It is the right thing to do not only to ensure that we have equality, but to ensure that we have better business practice in the boardroom.
I appreciate the warm words in the Scottish Government’s amendment. There is nothing in it with which we in the Labour Party can disagree, but a consensus is building, particularly outside the Parliament, that we need to take more radical steps and action to address the issues. The world is changing and people are asking questions about the orthodoxies that have been in the workplace and industry for many years. In this debate, we are asking serious questions about what we have always accepted as the norm.
John Wilson made a point about political representation. If it was not for the fact that the Labour Party took direct action in 1999, including through our selection processes for the regional list, it is unlikely that Jenny Marra and Kezia Dugdale would be sitting on our front bench today talking about the issue. Regardless of members’ political persuasion, that shows that such decisions can work.
09:48
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03289, in the name of Jenny Marra, on women’s representation.09:15
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am delighted to be able to open a debate on equality in the Scottish Parliament in this, the United Nations year of empowering women. I note that this appe...
Humza Yousaf (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Why, in the 13 years when it was in power, did the Labour Government not bring in a 40 per cent quota for public sector bodies?
Jenny Marra
Lab
We have always supported equal representation in our party and it is something that we will look towards in the future. We have been out of power for quite a...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Marra
Lab
No, thank you. No amount of application information to highly skilled and qualified women through Government DVDs, brochures and e-mailed vacancies are chang...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Can the member indicate how the appointments to the current police boards are made? My understanding is that the majority of the appointments come from local...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I think that the member will find, if he looks at gender representation among councillors in Scotland, that Labour has a much better record of electing women...
Christine Grahame
SNP
The member is concerned about gender balance and interventions. However, does she agree that the Justice Committee took the view that it is quality on the bo...
Jenny Marra
Lab
If the member had been listening to my speech, she would have found that I have already made the case that a quota enforces the idea of a meritocracy and tha...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Scottish Government in this timely debate. I say that it is timely because, as every member ...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I find it very sad that the minister cannot recognise that we have passion for equality. I wish that her party could show the same passion for the issue.
Shona Robison
SNP
A person can be passionate about an issue without having to resort to the petty party-political attacks that we saw Jenny Marra making. If Jenny Marra and th...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Shona Robison
SNP
In a minute.There has been good progress in relation to public appointments over the years, but it is not enough. Our public bodies need board members who re...
Neil Findlay
Lab
The minister’s party regularly points to Scandinavia and to the Norwegian and Finnish Governments. Are those Governments patronising, too?
Shona Robison
SNP
I did not say that. Perhaps the member should have listened. It is refreshing that the Labour Party has stopped denigrating small independent countries and h...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Does the minister acknowledge that this is perhaps the first time that a quota has been proposed in this context? She says that there is no consensus out the...
Shona Robison
SNP
I could not agree more with the member. That is the tone that she should have taken from the start of the debate, because I am happy to work with her and oth...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I shall try not to be provocative or patronising and I shall do my level best to be passionate. I thank Jenny Marra for bringing this important issue to the ...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Annabel Goldie
Con
I am very tight for time. Will the member forgive me if I try to use my five minutes as best I can?Although I certainly broadly sympathise with the thrust of...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to open debate. Time is extremely tight and the Presiding Officers will struggle to get into the debate everybody who wants to speak, so we will ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate and agree that the lack of women’s representation at the highest level of public life—and in private industry—is a concern that everyone...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member does not have time.
Clare Adamson
SNP
I am in my last few minutes. A European Commission report, “Women in economic decision-making in the EU”, looks at improved company performance evidenced by ...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. We have had several interesting speeches, particularly from Jenny Marra, who mentioned the international as...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I agreed with much of what John Park said, but Kezia Dugdale and Jenny Marra have quality—they are here not because they are women, but because they are good...
John Park
Lab
May I clarify my point?