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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 March 2012

29 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tribunal System
I refer members to my registered interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates.

I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. I am a relative newcomer to the Parliament, so I was not a party to the debate on the future of tribunals in September 2010, in which reference was made to the report of the group that was led by Lord Philip, which concluded that the tribunal system in Scotland was extremely “complex and fragmented” and did

“not meet the key principles of independence and coherence”.

Having announced in that debate that there was to be a Scottish Tribunals Service, the cabinet secretary, Mr MacAskill, is reported as having said that that was

“the first small step on a big journey. The real prize is for all tribunals in Scotland to form an integral part of the Scottish justice system.”—[Official Report, 30 September 2010; c 29183.]

That must remain the aim, and the current consultation heralds a further significant step along the way. Given that the new tiered structure will not for the moment include most tribunals that operate on devolved matters, let alone those on reserved matters, there is a considerable way to go, but it is a start.

Tribunal reform was one of the Scottish Government’s commitments for the making justice work programme. Making justice work aims to deliver a Scottish justice system that is accessible, easy to use and cost efficient. Those aims are admirable. As the minister said, tribunal reform must draw on the principles of the Franks report from the 1950s—on fairness, openness and impartiality.

As I said, Lord Philip was not complimentary about Scotland’s tribunal system. The Scottish Tribunals Service supports just six tribunals today, but there are many more and the integration of the six that are serviced by the Scottish Tribunals Service can be only the start. As other members have said, more than 40 tribunals work on different devolved areas in Scotland. All were established by different statutes, in different eras, with different priorities in mind.

We know that significant savings have been made from the establishment of the Scottish Tribunals Service and we cannot pretend other than that keeping the cost of tribunals under control must be a priority, but that must—as always—be compatible with the interests of justice. Reform of the tribunal system is an essential step in making Scottish civil law fit for the 21st century. The consultation on the Scottish Government’s proposals for a new tribunal system for Scotland is therefore a welcome development.

The strategy is clear, as I see it. The organisation of tribunals in Scotland, which can look like a jungle to the average person, will be streamlined, with a clearer appeals structure. Accessibility must remain at the core of the proposals. The new first tier ought to be better able to settle simple disputes, with the possibility of a referral to the appellate level. I do not believe that the system could embody functionality and simplicity better than that.

I am also confident that the new proposals will reassure people who are concerned that tribunals will not be independent of political influence and will not be impartial. Tribunals are used by people who require assistance to resolve disputes when unfair treatment by a third party—most often, an organ of the state—occurs. It is therefore important that their operation is not compromised, or seen to be compromised, by partisanship.

Let us be clear that the proposals are not a comprehensive solution to all tribunal-related challenges. In addition to the fact that the proposal is to commence with only the six tribunals that are serviced by the Scottish Tribunals Service, many tribunals remain reserved to the UK Government, so the Scottish Government cannot, at present, legislate on those areas.

I am pleased that the Scottish Government has been in dialogue with the UK Lord Chancellor, Kenneth Clarke, with a view to progressing the suggestion that there be a transfer of the administration of tribunals that operate in reserved areas in Scotland, as has been recommended by the Scottish committee of the Administrative Justice and Tribunals Council. I am not sure where we are with those discussions; I heard what the minister said to David McLetchie on the issue, but I would appreciate any further nuggets of information from the minister in her winding-up speech. Progress has clearly been made elsewhere in the UK. It would be undesirable for the enthusiasm that has been demonstrated elsewhere not to be replicated in Scotland.

The Scottish Government’s strategy for tribunals is clear. The proposals suggest an integrated model of first-tier tribunals, which will take on the work of current tribunals. In addition, an upper tier will be put in place as an appeals mechanism when decisions by the first-tier chambers are challenged.

Of course, perhaps the greatest strength of Scots law is its integrity. I am confident that the proposed system of tribunals, under the judicial leadership of the Lord President, will help to ensure that that integrity is maintained.

I also support proposals that seek to fully integrate tribunals with other forms of dispute resolution—first and foremost, the courts. The proposals that have been made on tribunals will not, as far as I am aware, affect an individual’s right to appeal to the Court of Session by way of judicial review. Although further clarity may be needed on the question of any appeal on a point of law to the Court of Session, I welcome in particular the proposal that appeals from the Mental Health Tribunal for Scotland to the Court of Session will remain. That is an important safeguard.

The proposals seem to herald a joined-up approach and represent a significant step towards sorting out the currently fragmented and piecemeal system. That cannot be anything but a plus.

I am pleased to have had the opportunity to speak in the debate and am supportive of the Scottish Government’s proposals, even if I might prefer—as David McLetchie suggested—more rapid progress. I look forward to the report on the consultation responses in due course.

15:53

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02521, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on the consultation on the new tribunal system in Scotland.14:58
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
Today’s debate focuses on tribunal reform in Scotland and highlights our proposals for modernising how tribunals operate.Tribunals are a valued and distincti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I draw members’ attention to the fact that we have quite a bit of time in hand in the debate, so we will be generous with time and will seek interventions.15:10
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the minister for her considered introduction to the topic and welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on an important issue.Tribunals are a f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
I now call David McLetchie. Mr McLetchie, you may have a very generous six minutes.15:16
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con) Con
Oh, right! Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Would that you were always in a position to be so generous. We know that you are in spirit, even if you ar...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
What was all that about?
David McLetchie Con
That is called padding, Ms Grahame. Laughter.I welcome the opportunity to speak slowly on this topic, following the launch of the Scottish Government’s consu...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
The member might be interested to know that there is a conversation between us in Scotland and the Ministry of Justice south of the border about the possible...
David McLetchie Con
I thank the minister for that assurance. That is entirely welcome and I wish her well in those discussions.The need for reform of the tribunal system has bee...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
A valiant effort, Mr McLetchie.Before we proceed to the open debate, I am pleased to inform members that we have been joined in the public gallery by His Exc...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
This is a potentially interesting subject for someone who happens to be one of the many users of the tribunals service. I draw members’ attention to the mini...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the minister on two levels. First, I thank her for her fair presentation of the proposal that is set out in the consultation document on a new tribun...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, my heart sank when you said that we have extra time. We always get extra time when we do not have a lot to say.I commend David McLetchie w...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my registered interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates.I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. I am a relative newcomer ...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
When the proposal to set up the Scottish Tribunals Service was debated in September 2010—there was the same glamour then as there has been in the debate so f...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
In its way, the debate—enjoined as it is to the Government’s consultation paper on a new tribunal system for Scotland, as announced by the minister on March ...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
I would like to take us back a few years and to a little bit of research into the history of the situation. Members have referred to Sir Oliver Franks’s repo...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
There will be the possibility of sheriffs, sheriff principals and other very expert individuals adjudicating at that level. We are talking about a high level...
Nigel Don SNP
I am grateful for that clarification.It has occurred to me that the upper-tier tribunal will set precedent. It will be staffed by senior people and it will m...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
It has been an entertaining debate. We have had the glamour of David McLetchie, the dry humour of Christine Grahame and a history lesson from Nigel Don. For ...
John Finnie SNP
The member mentions the stress that is associated with attendance at a tribunal. Does he agree that everything should be done to resolve issues through early...
James Kelly Lab
I thank the member for his intervention and I agree with what he says. As he said in his speech, alternative mechanisms for dispute resolution before the tri...
Christine Grahame SNP
I am trying to help the member out. Does he agree that the websites of some of the tribunals are quite helpful? Does he also agree that we should applaud the...
James Kelly Lab
I thank Christine Grahame very much indeed.We all use information technology in our workplaces, but the issue is getting the information out to the 80,000 us...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
That is perfectly acceptable, Mr Kelly. I know that you have really important points to make and that the members in the chamber would love to hear them.
James Kelly Lab
Yes. I can see that members are looking very attentive, particularly those on the front benches, who I am sure are willing me on.The independence of the trib...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
I think that we should give a vote of thanks to Mr Kelly for managing to speak for eight minutes.I welcome the broad agreement across the chamber on this iss...
Roderick Campbell SNP
So far, Colin Keir has not mentioned the tribunal judiciary. Does he agree that it is appropriate that the Scottish ministers determine their remuneration on...
Colin Keir SNP
There is every possibility that I will agree with that statement.The tribunal system in Scotland requires to be changed. As we have heard, there have been va...