Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 March 2012
29 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tribunal System
I thank the minister for her considered introduction to the topic and welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on an important issue.
Tribunals are a fundamental part of the Scottish civil justice system. Each year, many more Scots attend tribunals than attend court hearings, so we have an important responsibility to get the reform correct.
Unlike court hearings, tribunals are designed to bring about resolutions to disputes in an informal and less adversarial fashion, which makes them unique in form and function. However, much like the decisions that are taken in court, tribunal hearings have a significant impact on people’s lives. That is the case not least with mental health tribunals, which have the ability to restrict the fundamental freedoms of our citizens.
With that in mind, it is essential that any restructuring of the tribunal system be focused and centred on the citizen. The three principles of accessibility, accountability and transparency must be at the core of the reform. We must aim to create a structure that is not only clear from the outside looking in but coherent from the perspective of the citizens who use it.
During the previous debate on tribunal reform, the Scottish Parliament was united behind the need to restructure the fragmented and complex tribunal system in Scotland. Expert reports and evidence all agree that the system is too often inaccessible and costly to people. We have more than 40 tribunals, which handle a case load of more than 500,000 a year, and stakeholders were clear that we could do better to simplify the system for Scottish citizens.
The consultation that was launched last week contains far-reaching proposals for reform, and I am certain that, as it unfolds, we shall receive the same thorough and informative feedback from stakeholders as we did in 2010. I broadly welcome the proposals and agree with their main objective of creating a more coherent system, which will provide better clarity for people. Bringing each tribunal into one, streamlined system gives us the opportunity to offer Scots an enhanced level of accessibility to the justice system, as well as clear accountability for the decisions that tribunals make.
I welcome the fact that the new system will be adaptable in that it will be able to integrate further tribunals if and when that is deemed necessary. That aspect of the proposals will allow the Scottish system to respond efficiently to changes in United Kingdom legislation and will offer sustainability and clarity.
Many aspects of the consultation proposals require careful consideration, and I look forward to receiving stakeholder responses on them. For example, on matters such as appointments and the regulation of the system, we must act as far as possible in the spirit of the Leggatt report and recognise that the independence of tribunals is critical to their users’ confidence in them. I welcome the Government’s stated commitment to that principle and look forward to it underpinning any statutory provisions that are introduced. As we move to the new tribunal system, I urge the Government to listen to stakeholders and assess carefully its proposals on sharing services with courts in a drive for efficiencies.
As I said at the start of my speech, the tribunals’ separateness from the courts is an integral part of their less adversarial and more informal approach to resolving disputes between the citizen and the state. Although there is a case to be made for sharing services where practicable, any such move must not amount to a fundamental deviation in the nature of tribunals.
Similarly, in this drive for efficiencies, I look to the Government to protect the expertise and specialist resources that will continue to benefit each tribunal in its new format. As we know, each tribunal deals with a unique and usually highly technical aspect of law and we must not undo the good work that has been done up to now to build and maintain the appropriate resources for undertaking robust and comprehensive tribunal hearings. We need to carefully consider the types of services to be shared and the extent to which efficiencies take precedence as the system unfolds.
These and other issues will undoubtedly arise as the consultation goes forward and I am confident that, in its drive to get this aspect of civil justice right for the thousands of Scots who use it every year, the Government will be keen to work together with all parties in the Parliament to take forward stakeholders’ views. Labour wants a system that not only is streamlined and efficient but is accountable and transparent and puts people at its centre. We will work with the Government throughout and beyond the consultation to achieve that, because it is the fair and right thing to do.
I move amendment S4M-02521.1, to insert at end:
“and believes that any reform should put users at the centre by following the principles of transparency, accountability and accessibility.”
Tribunals are a fundamental part of the Scottish civil justice system. Each year, many more Scots attend tribunals than attend court hearings, so we have an important responsibility to get the reform correct.
Unlike court hearings, tribunals are designed to bring about resolutions to disputes in an informal and less adversarial fashion, which makes them unique in form and function. However, much like the decisions that are taken in court, tribunal hearings have a significant impact on people’s lives. That is the case not least with mental health tribunals, which have the ability to restrict the fundamental freedoms of our citizens.
With that in mind, it is essential that any restructuring of the tribunal system be focused and centred on the citizen. The three principles of accessibility, accountability and transparency must be at the core of the reform. We must aim to create a structure that is not only clear from the outside looking in but coherent from the perspective of the citizens who use it.
During the previous debate on tribunal reform, the Scottish Parliament was united behind the need to restructure the fragmented and complex tribunal system in Scotland. Expert reports and evidence all agree that the system is too often inaccessible and costly to people. We have more than 40 tribunals, which handle a case load of more than 500,000 a year, and stakeholders were clear that we could do better to simplify the system for Scottish citizens.
The consultation that was launched last week contains far-reaching proposals for reform, and I am certain that, as it unfolds, we shall receive the same thorough and informative feedback from stakeholders as we did in 2010. I broadly welcome the proposals and agree with their main objective of creating a more coherent system, which will provide better clarity for people. Bringing each tribunal into one, streamlined system gives us the opportunity to offer Scots an enhanced level of accessibility to the justice system, as well as clear accountability for the decisions that tribunals make.
I welcome the fact that the new system will be adaptable in that it will be able to integrate further tribunals if and when that is deemed necessary. That aspect of the proposals will allow the Scottish system to respond efficiently to changes in United Kingdom legislation and will offer sustainability and clarity.
Many aspects of the consultation proposals require careful consideration, and I look forward to receiving stakeholder responses on them. For example, on matters such as appointments and the regulation of the system, we must act as far as possible in the spirit of the Leggatt report and recognise that the independence of tribunals is critical to their users’ confidence in them. I welcome the Government’s stated commitment to that principle and look forward to it underpinning any statutory provisions that are introduced. As we move to the new tribunal system, I urge the Government to listen to stakeholders and assess carefully its proposals on sharing services with courts in a drive for efficiencies.
As I said at the start of my speech, the tribunals’ separateness from the courts is an integral part of their less adversarial and more informal approach to resolving disputes between the citizen and the state. Although there is a case to be made for sharing services where practicable, any such move must not amount to a fundamental deviation in the nature of tribunals.
Similarly, in this drive for efficiencies, I look to the Government to protect the expertise and specialist resources that will continue to benefit each tribunal in its new format. As we know, each tribunal deals with a unique and usually highly technical aspect of law and we must not undo the good work that has been done up to now to build and maintain the appropriate resources for undertaking robust and comprehensive tribunal hearings. We need to carefully consider the types of services to be shared and the extent to which efficiencies take precedence as the system unfolds.
These and other issues will undoubtedly arise as the consultation goes forward and I am confident that, in its drive to get this aspect of civil justice right for the thousands of Scots who use it every year, the Government will be keen to work together with all parties in the Parliament to take forward stakeholders’ views. Labour wants a system that not only is streamlined and efficient but is accountable and transparent and puts people at its centre. We will work with the Government throughout and beyond the consultation to achieve that, because it is the fair and right thing to do.
I move amendment S4M-02521.1, to insert at end:
“and believes that any reform should put users at the centre by following the principles of transparency, accountability and accessibility.”
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02521, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on the consultation on the new tribunal system in Scotland.14:58
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham)
SNP
Today’s debate focuses on tribunal reform in Scotland and highlights our proposals for modernising how tribunals operate.Tribunals are a valued and distincti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I draw members’ attention to the fact that we have quite a bit of time in hand in the debate, so we will be generous with time and will seek interventions.15:10
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister for her considered introduction to the topic and welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on an important issue.Tribunals are a f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
I now call David McLetchie. Mr McLetchie, you may have a very generous six minutes.15:16
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Oh, right! Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Would that you were always in a position to be so generous. We know that you are in spirit, even if you ar...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
What was all that about?
David McLetchie
Con
That is called padding, Ms Grahame. Laughter.I welcome the opportunity to speak slowly on this topic, following the launch of the Scottish Government’s consu...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
The member might be interested to know that there is a conversation between us in Scotland and the Ministry of Justice south of the border about the possible...
David McLetchie
Con
I thank the minister for that assurance. That is entirely welcome and I wish her well in those discussions.The need for reform of the tribunal system has bee...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
A valiant effort, Mr McLetchie.Before we proceed to the open debate, I am pleased to inform members that we have been joined in the public gallery by His Exc...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
This is a potentially interesting subject for someone who happens to be one of the many users of the tribunals service. I draw members’ attention to the mini...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister on two levels. First, I thank her for her fair presentation of the proposal that is set out in the consultation document on a new tribun...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Presiding Officer, my heart sank when you said that we have extra time. We always get extra time when we do not have a lot to say.I commend David McLetchie w...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I refer members to my registered interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates.I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. I am a relative newcomer ...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
When the proposal to set up the Scottish Tribunals Service was debated in September 2010—there was the same glamour then as there has been in the debate so f...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
In its way, the debate—enjoined as it is to the Government’s consultation paper on a new tribunal system for Scotland, as announced by the minister on March ...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I would like to take us back a few years and to a little bit of research into the history of the situation. Members have referred to Sir Oliver Franks’s repo...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
There will be the possibility of sheriffs, sheriff principals and other very expert individuals adjudicating at that level. We are talking about a high level...
Nigel Don
SNP
I am grateful for that clarification.It has occurred to me that the upper-tier tribunal will set precedent. It will be staffed by senior people and it will m...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
It has been an entertaining debate. We have had the glamour of David McLetchie, the dry humour of Christine Grahame and a history lesson from Nigel Don. For ...
John Finnie
SNP
The member mentions the stress that is associated with attendance at a tribunal. Does he agree that everything should be done to resolve issues through early...
James Kelly
Lab
I thank the member for his intervention and I agree with what he says. As he said in his speech, alternative mechanisms for dispute resolution before the tri...
Christine Grahame
SNP
I am trying to help the member out. Does he agree that the websites of some of the tribunals are quite helpful? Does he also agree that we should applaud the...
James Kelly
Lab
I thank Christine Grahame very much indeed.We all use information technology in our workplaces, but the issue is getting the information out to the 80,000 us...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
That is perfectly acceptable, Mr Kelly. I know that you have really important points to make and that the members in the chamber would love to hear them.
James Kelly
Lab
Yes. I can see that members are looking very attentive, particularly those on the front benches, who I am sure are willing me on.The independence of the trib...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
SNP
I think that we should give a vote of thanks to Mr Kelly for managing to speak for eight minutes.I welcome the broad agreement across the chamber on this iss...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
So far, Colin Keir has not mentioned the tribunal judiciary. Does he agree that it is appropriate that the Scottish ministers determine their remuneration on...
Colin Keir
SNP
There is every possibility that I will agree with that statement.The tribunal system in Scotland requires to be changed. As we have heard, there have been va...