Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 May 2012
17 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Civilian Police Staff
The effective delivery of policing requires, among other things, the Government to provide confidence to police and police staff about their future in respect of employment and support, and it needs the Government to acknowledge that the principles of public service, integrity, team ethos and vocation are vital ingredients in ensuring that staff act in the spirit of public service. It also needs the recognition that value for money means paying the going rate for the jobs that are undertaken, and it needs efficiencies to ensure that the person with the required skills is engaged on the appropriate duties. Underlying those concepts is the additional responsibility on Government to respond to staff by showing exemplary fairness and loyalty to those who are currently employed across the police service, to leave all staff in no doubt that decisions about their future will be made on the basis of what is best for the future of policing across Scotland and not on the basis of a one-sided political commitment to maintaining police numbers while eliminating less visible support jobs.
Had the Government candidly admitted that 1,000 additional constables would result in at least 1,000 back-office jobs going—according to the unions, the figure is up to 3,000—I think that MSPs would have been less gushing in their support. No one would argue that the maintenance of police numbers is not a good result, but the fairytale that lies behind that fact is the loss of many more jobs behind the scene.
The sleight of hand involved would play well as merely a confidence trick if it were not for the fact that so many valuable staff are being let go and others demotivated by the very processes that should be enthusing staff as they move towards a single police force. Members should be in no doubt that these are staff cuts—and cuts they are, no matter what variation of the English language people try to use. They are directly linked to the savings targeted by this Government; they are not demanded by the creation of a single police force.
We have heard members quote eminent witnesses who provided the Justice Committee with evidence.
The most accurate staff numbers that I can uncover are for the period up to December 2011—unfortunately, the most recent figures will not be released until next month. The figures reveal that we have lost 905 posts. In Central Scotland, the area policed by Kevin Smith, a third of staff have been lost. The complement has fallen to 299 people.
Surely we cannot continue with the delusion that the work done by 905 people can be done by the remaining back-office staff. Surely the claims of efficiency made by this Government in relation to the management of staff over the years mean something—surely they mean that, across policing, current staff were and are fully utilised in their own work and are not available to soak up new duties.
The evidence gained from staff across the forces indicates that they are losing staff involved in warrants, intelligence analysis, football monitoring duties, custody, HR support, media services duties and firearms certification. We need to show support and to have a balanced police service. The service needs effective staff to support police officers, who should be out on the street fighting crime, not fighting paperwork and answering phones.
09:52
Had the Government candidly admitted that 1,000 additional constables would result in at least 1,000 back-office jobs going—according to the unions, the figure is up to 3,000—I think that MSPs would have been less gushing in their support. No one would argue that the maintenance of police numbers is not a good result, but the fairytale that lies behind that fact is the loss of many more jobs behind the scene.
The sleight of hand involved would play well as merely a confidence trick if it were not for the fact that so many valuable staff are being let go and others demotivated by the very processes that should be enthusing staff as they move towards a single police force. Members should be in no doubt that these are staff cuts—and cuts they are, no matter what variation of the English language people try to use. They are directly linked to the savings targeted by this Government; they are not demanded by the creation of a single police force.
We have heard members quote eminent witnesses who provided the Justice Committee with evidence.
The most accurate staff numbers that I can uncover are for the period up to December 2011—unfortunately, the most recent figures will not be released until next month. The figures reveal that we have lost 905 posts. In Central Scotland, the area policed by Kevin Smith, a third of staff have been lost. The complement has fallen to 299 people.
Surely we cannot continue with the delusion that the work done by 905 people can be done by the remaining back-office staff. Surely the claims of efficiency made by this Government in relation to the management of staff over the years mean something—surely they mean that, across policing, current staff were and are fully utilised in their own work and are not available to soak up new duties.
The evidence gained from staff across the forces indicates that they are losing staff involved in warrants, intelligence analysis, football monitoring duties, custody, HR support, media services duties and firearms certification. We need to show support and to have a balanced police service. The service needs effective staff to support police officers, who should be out on the street fighting crime, not fighting paperwork and answering phones.
09:52
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02906, in name of Lewis Macdonald, on justice. Members who wish to take part in the debate should press ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is a week since we debated the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill and it completed stage 1 of its passage through Parliament. We in the Labour Party s...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Is Lewis Macdonald implying that this should not be an operational matter for the chief constable, who is accountable to the board? Is he really suggesting t...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
It is not a question of whether or not I think ministers should direct chief constables; the cabinet secretary has said that he will direct the chief constab...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
For the sake of balance, I point out that, in evidence, Chief Constable Kevin Smith said:“There is a notion that for every member of support staff that goes ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I will give you a few more minutes, Mr Macdonald.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer.That is certainly ACPOS’s intention in its approach to the process, but it would not have told the Justice Committee that there ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the debate and the opportunity that it offers to consider an important issue. I say at the outset that the Government recognises and values the eno...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Would the cabinet secretary be good enough to acknowledge that crime rates have fallen across Europe and that, in America, they are approaching a 50-year low...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The situation is down to splendid work by the wider police family. I have commented that other factors are involved, but I believe that there is, particularl...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary nonetheless acknowledge that his current approach to civilian staff taking on roles that were formerly done by police officers is ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
That takes me back to the point that that is an operational matter for the chief constable. It is not appropriate for me to intervene in Lothian and Borders ...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
What percentage cut will be made to the police budget as a result of the plans?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
We are protecting police budgets and police numbers. That contrasts with Yvette Cooper’s position, which is why I got a standing ovation at the Scottish Poli...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
In the context of the current events—the largest reform of Scotland’s policing for more than a generation—this morning’s debate is important and I thank the ...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP)
SNP
How many civilian staff have lost their jobs through compulsory redundancy as a result of the Liberal Democrat-Conservative Government at Westminster?
Alison McInnes
LD
Mr FitzPatrick would do well to focus on what we are here to focus on, which is the running of the service in this country, for which responsibility sits wit...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I welcome the opportunity to debate the future of civilian staff in Scotland’s police forces, which touches on topics that we discussed last week during the ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We will now move to the open debate. Members have a strict four minutes. I regret that, if you take interventions, I will be not be able to give you addition...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Obviously, we have to say that these are not times of plenty. Let us begin at the beginning. I repeat the cabinet secretary’s words:“we are making a virtue o...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Will the member give way?
Christine Grahame
SNP
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes, and I have things that I want to say.Thirdly, it is of course appropriate for two reasons that Opposition parties a...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member has 30 seconds.
Christine Grahame
SNP
I say to Alison McInnes that crime figures and the fear of crime are falling notwithstanding civilian jobs going.In England, Theresa May was told by the Poli...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I am sorry to cut you off, Ms Grahame, but I need to call Graeme Pearson.09:49
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The effective delivery of policing requires, among other things, the Government to provide confidence to police and police staff about their future in respec...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
There is a strong sense of déjà vu about the debate. Last week, during the stage 1 debate on the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill, I reminded the chamb...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member has no time to take an intervention.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
As the cabinet secretary acknowledged, support staff have made and will continue to make an important contribution to reducing crime and making Scotland safe...