Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 21 June 2012
21 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Government (Empty Property Relief)
There is potential to bring 5,500 properties back into use. The alternative is that, as Mr Brown suggested, we do nothing and leave our town centres the way they are, with no hope or vision for the future. That is what the Tories constantly come up with. If we continue to do nothing, the cost and impact will be that, in 2012-13, £152 million will be used to subsidise empty shops. We will spend £152 million to keep shops and businesses closed. That is not right or correct in a modern and dynamic Scotland. What incentive does that give faceless absentee landlords on our high streets, who sit on properties while having no interest in town centre regeneration? Reform of empty property rates will revitalise our town centres and provide that incentive. It will work alongside other regeneration strategies and groups in our communities. It is important to our town centres and to our local economies, which work locally with the authorities and partner organisations to ensure that we can have vibrant and sustainable town centres.
Derek Mackay has much experience of this in Paisley town centre, as he mentioned. He knows, only too well, the challenges that this issue holds, and he has worked on it as a councillor and now as the Minister for Local Government and Planning. In Paisley town centre, from Paisley Cross to New Street we have more than 65 different landlords, which makes things extremely difficult. The public constantly ask how we will get people into the shops. It is a difficulty, but this measure alone will ensure that people have to keep their eye on the ball and do something with their properties, instead of sitting and waiting for things to get better.
The public pride themselves on their town centres and they want to make a difference. Recently, we had an event in Paisley to commemorate the Renfrewshire witch hunt of 1697—not 1979 as The Herald said. During that witch hunt, seven unfortunate souls were tried and put to death for witchcraft. The event, whose organisers I brought to the Parliament, took place in the town centre and was extremely busy. It made a difference, but what a difference it would have made had the high street been full of shops.
Every decision that I make here is based on what good it can do for Paisley. I believe that the bill passes that test. The status quo is not an option and, like the Tories, offers nothing.
11:04
Derek Mackay has much experience of this in Paisley town centre, as he mentioned. He knows, only too well, the challenges that this issue holds, and he has worked on it as a councillor and now as the Minister for Local Government and Planning. In Paisley town centre, from Paisley Cross to New Street we have more than 65 different landlords, which makes things extremely difficult. The public constantly ask how we will get people into the shops. It is a difficulty, but this measure alone will ensure that people have to keep their eye on the ball and do something with their properties, instead of sitting and waiting for things to get better.
The public pride themselves on their town centres and they want to make a difference. Recently, we had an event in Paisley to commemorate the Renfrewshire witch hunt of 1697—not 1979 as The Herald said. During that witch hunt, seven unfortunate souls were tried and put to death for witchcraft. The event, whose organisers I brought to the Parliament, took place in the town centre and was extremely busy. It made a difference, but what a difference it would have made had the high street been full of shops.
Every decision that I make here is based on what good it can do for Paisley. I believe that the bill passes that test. The status quo is not an option and, like the Tories, offers nothing.
11:04
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03397, in the name of Gavin Brown, on local government. Mr Brown, you have up to 10 minutes.10:27
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I bring to the chamber our deep concern with a part of the Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties) (Scotland) Bill. Our particular concern involves ...
The Minister for Local Government and Planning (Derek Mackay)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Government’s proposed reform of empty property relief for commercial properties, as set out in the Local Government F...
Gavin Brown
Con
Does the minister accept that the policy memorandum quite clearly states why the Government is doing that, and that the Government immediately intends to red...
Derek Mackay
SNP
I am happy to discuss that further as I continue, but the fundamental power that we are seeking in the bill is the enabling power to vary those reliefs. The ...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I do not want to preach, but I have personal experience, which perhaps the minister does not have. I have been the owner of office property that was unoccupi...
Derek Mackay
SNP
I do not deny that Annabel Goldie has experience in the area. I have experience in leading a public-private partnership in Paisley, in Renfrewshire, to try t...
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Derek Mackay
SNP
I am four and a half minutes into my speech and I should make progress.Over the five-year period before revaluation, £750 million will still be dedicated to ...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the debate that the Conservatives have stimulated. I also agree with most of the motion. However, I want to give the Scottish National Party the ch...
Derek Mackay
SNP
I make the point again that the Government is taking a flexible approach. We will listen to stakeholders, to the committee and to the Parliament. We are list...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Without a business and regulatory impact assessment, the Government is listening without having properly considered the evidence. That is the key issue.The G...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We now move to the open debate. Time is tight, so speeches should be a strict four minutes.10:51
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
How I yearn for the days when the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats had a functioning majority in the Parliament. They used to listen to Parliament at e...
Gavin Brown
Con
Will the member give way?
Mark McDonald
SNP
Gavin Brown or his colleagues can deal with that point later. He will not impinge on my time, when he had 10 minutes to talk about that earlier.At present, t...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I declare at the outset that I am a member of the Local Government and Regeneration Committee, which is in the latter stages of producing its report on the L...
Derek Mackay
SNP
Given that this point might well be reiterated again and again by Opposition speakers, I must point out that the issue of demolitions in England refers speci...
Anne McTaggart
Lab
People in town centres are worried about this issue.Despite the fact that groups such as the Confederation of British Industry and Scottish Chambers of Comme...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
Today we heard a first: Gavin Brown and the Conservatives have concerns. After that I stopped listening, of course, as there was not much else in his speech....
Gavin Brown
Con
Will the member give way?
George Adam
SNP
I will after I have finished this point. Mr Brown clearly does not live in the real world, because in high streets across the country there are shops that ha...
Gavin Brown
Con
George Adam is a remarkable man. He did not listen to a word I said—he switched off—but he has spent the past minute quoting me, which is quite impressive. C...
George Adam
SNP
There is potential to bring 5,500 properties back into use. The alternative is that, as Mr Brown suggested, we do nothing and leave our town centres the way ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Throughout Scotland, town centres that were once the vibrant and thriving hubs of local communities are increasingly in decline. Closed-down notices and boar...
Derek Mackay
SNP
Margaret Mitchell paints a pretty grim picture of town centres in Scotland. If that is the case under the current regime, why is the status quo so acceptable?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
If we let the business rates incentivisation scheme and the bonus scheme—our ideas—kick in, the status quo has a chance of survival. However, the Government ...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome this debate on reducing empty property relief for non-domestic rates. I remind members that we subsidise vacant properties by more than £150 millio...
Michael McMahon
Lab
Is it possible that that has not been mentioned because it is not in the motion, which is about non-domestic rates?
Richard Lyle
SNP
It is still in the bill.The Tories have been rumbled. Despite the rhetoric of the Conservatives in the Scottish Parliament, the Con-Dem Government has failed...