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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 21 June 2012

21 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Government (Empty Property Relief)
Without a business and regulatory impact assessment, the Government is listening without having properly considered the evidence. That is the key issue.

The Government amendment is an act of self-congratulation; if there were a prize for that, the minister would surely be in the top three. However, this is a serious issue. It is simply not acceptable for members to be asked to support the bill without proper scrutiny, given the major concerns that have been submitted to the Parliament.

Evidence from England has to be considered. The number of unoccupied properties has risen as the economic downturn has gripped. Properties have been demolished rather than let. That means that when the economy picks up, those properties will not be available. It has been suggested that companies are becoming insolvent rather than being stuck with higher business rates.

In Wales, as has been mentioned, our Labour colleagues have gone for a completely different approach. They have commissioned a detailed independent expert report. It acknowledges that although business rates are a major source of taxation, the changes to the current business rates regime would not be a panacea for wider economic challenges. Crucially, it highlights the complexity of the property sector. We are not getting that sense of understanding from the minister.

There is also the impact on the public sector. For all the minister’s supposed assurances to the committee, he cannot be definitive about the impact on the public sector either.

The figure of £18 million is illusory. We know from the evidence to the Finance Committee and the Local Government and Regeneration Committee that the business community is deeply worried about the proposals. Yesterday’s comments by the Scottish Chambers of Commerce testify to that. The Federation of Small Businesses has called for an investigation into whether property rates relief acts as a block to or a driver of economic activity. There are too many unanswered questions.

The reassurance that we have heard again this morning—that nobody need worry because the Scottish Government is consulting on the detail of the rates—is arrogant and worrying. That approach completely prejudges the outcome of parliamentary scrutiny. We have not yet had the Local Government and Regeneration Committee’s report or the stage 1 debate on the bill. There is no transparency in the process, which is run by ministers. The SNP has a working majority, but it should still treat the Parliament with respect. There should be full consultation on the proposals, followed by parliamentary scrutiny, not the other way round. When we deal with the regulations, the SNP’s overall majority will mean that they are simply nodded through, so there will be no opportunity to change the proposals.

Good government demands effective parliamentary scrutiny. The Finance Committee considered that there should be a business and regulatory impact assessment, and we agree. The SNP Government is incurring costs for businesses and local councils without proper consideration.

Our amendment is constructive. The Crofting Reform etc Bill was delayed to enable the Labour-led Scottish Government to consider major objections to part of it. That Government took its time and brought that bill back. More recently, the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill was delayed for proper consideration.

We are in hard times and there are tough decisions to be made. There is too much at stake for us not to get it right.

I move amendment S4M-03397.2, to leave out from “, and therefore calls” to end and insert:

“; welcomes efforts to regenerate local economies and encourage occupancy in town centres but is concerned that the Scottish Government’s plans to reduce empty property relief through the Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties etc.) (Scotland) Bill may not achieve its stated aim, may have a detrimental effect on business and the economy and may, in fact, cost the public sector considerable sums of money; calls on the Scottish Government to conduct a business and regulatory impact assessment (BRIA) immediately and to provide the Parliament with detailed information on how many commercial properties will be brought back into use as a result of these proposals; also calls on the Scottish Government to delay further consideration of the bill until the Parliament can consider the findings of the BRIA and other evidence, and urges the Scottish Government to consider other measures to incentivise local government to invest in economic development, such as allowing councils to keep a proportion of business rates raised through increased economic activity.”

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03397, in the name of Gavin Brown, on local government. Mr Brown, you have up to 10 minutes.10:27
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I bring to the chamber our deep concern with a part of the Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties) (Scotland) Bill. Our particular concern involves ...
The Minister for Local Government and Planning (Derek Mackay) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Government’s proposed reform of empty property relief for commercial properties, as set out in the Local Government F...
Gavin Brown Con
Does the minister accept that the policy memorandum quite clearly states why the Government is doing that, and that the Government immediately intends to red...
Derek Mackay SNP
I am happy to discuss that further as I continue, but the fundamental power that we are seeking in the bill is the enabling power to vary those reliefs. The ...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I do not want to preach, but I have personal experience, which perhaps the minister does not have. I have been the owner of office property that was unoccupi...
Derek Mackay SNP
I do not deny that Annabel Goldie has experience in the area. I have experience in leading a public-private partnership in Paisley, in Renfrewshire, to try t...
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Derek Mackay SNP
I am four and a half minutes into my speech and I should make progress.Over the five-year period before revaluation, £750 million will still be dedicated to ...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the debate that the Conservatives have stimulated. I also agree with most of the motion. However, I want to give the Scottish National Party the ch...
Derek Mackay SNP
I make the point again that the Government is taking a flexible approach. We will listen to stakeholders, to the committee and to the Parliament. We are list...
Sarah Boyack Lab
Without a business and regulatory impact assessment, the Government is listening without having properly considered the evidence. That is the key issue.The G...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
We now move to the open debate. Time is tight, so speeches should be a strict four minutes.10:51
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
How I yearn for the days when the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats had a functioning majority in the Parliament. They used to listen to Parliament at e...
Gavin Brown Con
Will the member give way?
Mark McDonald SNP
Gavin Brown or his colleagues can deal with that point later. He will not impinge on my time, when he had 10 minutes to talk about that earlier.At present, t...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I declare at the outset that I am a member of the Local Government and Regeneration Committee, which is in the latter stages of producing its report on the L...
Derek Mackay SNP
Given that this point might well be reiterated again and again by Opposition speakers, I must point out that the issue of demolitions in England refers speci...
Anne McTaggart Lab
People in town centres are worried about this issue.Despite the fact that groups such as the Confederation of British Industry and Scottish Chambers of Comme...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
Today we heard a first: Gavin Brown and the Conservatives have concerns. After that I stopped listening, of course, as there was not much else in his speech....
Gavin Brown Con
Will the member give way?
George Adam SNP
I will after I have finished this point. Mr Brown clearly does not live in the real world, because in high streets across the country there are shops that ha...
Gavin Brown Con
George Adam is a remarkable man. He did not listen to a word I said—he switched off—but he has spent the past minute quoting me, which is quite impressive. C...
George Adam SNP
There is potential to bring 5,500 properties back into use. The alternative is that, as Mr Brown suggested, we do nothing and leave our town centres the way ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Throughout Scotland, town centres that were once the vibrant and thriving hubs of local communities are increasingly in decline. Closed-down notices and boar...
Derek Mackay SNP
Margaret Mitchell paints a pretty grim picture of town centres in Scotland. If that is the case under the current regime, why is the status quo so acceptable?
Margaret Mitchell Con
If we let the business rates incentivisation scheme and the bonus scheme—our ideas—kick in, the status quo has a chance of survival. However, the Government ...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this debate on reducing empty property relief for non-domestic rates. I remind members that we subsidise vacant properties by more than £150 millio...
Michael McMahon Lab
Is it possible that that has not been mentioned because it is not in the motion, which is about non-domestic rates?
Richard Lyle SNP
It is still in the bill.The Tories have been rumbled. Despite the rhetoric of the Conservatives in the Scottish Parliament, the Con-Dem Government has failed...