Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012
14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The views that I have expressed thus far are based on my experience of nearly 40 years in law enforcement. The member is familiar with the debates that have taken place in the Parliament and I hope that he accepts that, although we may separate in our views on the way forward, our views are honestly held and the background to them is firmly researched.
We all know that we face a challenge that has caused problems for centuries, such as those depicted in Hogarth’s 18th century “Gin Lane”, which led to the creation of the Salvation Army, the Pioneers and Alcoholics Anonymous to name but a few. The problem is well known to us and is broadly recognised. The time is right to deliver some responses.
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s inviting of contributions to the strategy to deal with the abuse of alcohol. In that connection, on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party, I offer six proposals that are informing our considerations as we prepare for a bill that will include justice provisions that are designed to deliver a positive outcome on the issue.
The cabinet secretary is quite right to say that there is no silver bullet. No one is confident that the solutions are to hand. Those who abuse alcohol seem to be completely committed to destroying their lives by doing so, regardless of the evidence that is provided to them.
We suggest that consideration should be given to the introduction of alcohol bottle tagging. That development, which was piloted in Dundee city, was found to be most useful in identifying those premises that were the source of liquor for young people who abused it in a binge fashion in various public areas away from overall review.
We propose, and invite consideration of the idea, that alcohol fine diversion is a way forward. Rather than criminalise those who are found to be indulging in alcohol abuse, we should, at an early stage of their involvement with alcohol, divert them towards an education process involving a series of courses and support, much as we do with speeding drivers. That would give them the opportunity to consider their position before they become involved in the heartbreak of a lifelong indulgence in alcohol.
We propose the creation of an alcohol arrest referral scheme, alongside the drug referral scheme. That would allow people who sit in our cells regularly of a weekend at times of crisis to take the opportunity to seek advice and support.
Drinking banning orders could be applied to individuals who have been identified by the courts not only to have engaged in criminality, but to have abused alcohol in a public place. Breaches of those banning orders would bring them back before the courts. That measure would focus on the source of many of those people’s problems.
We also propose alcohol treatment and testing orders as an extension of the current drug treatment and testing orders. If we think that those who engage in drug abuse should be subjected to regular testing and that that has a significant effect in disciplining their lifestyle and bringing them back to a healthy way of living, why should we not apply the same rigours to those who engage in alcohol abuse, which kills many more people in our communities?
We all know that we face a challenge that has caused problems for centuries, such as those depicted in Hogarth’s 18th century “Gin Lane”, which led to the creation of the Salvation Army, the Pioneers and Alcoholics Anonymous to name but a few. The problem is well known to us and is broadly recognised. The time is right to deliver some responses.
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s inviting of contributions to the strategy to deal with the abuse of alcohol. In that connection, on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party, I offer six proposals that are informing our considerations as we prepare for a bill that will include justice provisions that are designed to deliver a positive outcome on the issue.
The cabinet secretary is quite right to say that there is no silver bullet. No one is confident that the solutions are to hand. Those who abuse alcohol seem to be completely committed to destroying their lives by doing so, regardless of the evidence that is provided to them.
We suggest that consideration should be given to the introduction of alcohol bottle tagging. That development, which was piloted in Dundee city, was found to be most useful in identifying those premises that were the source of liquor for young people who abused it in a binge fashion in various public areas away from overall review.
We propose, and invite consideration of the idea, that alcohol fine diversion is a way forward. Rather than criminalise those who are found to be indulging in alcohol abuse, we should, at an early stage of their involvement with alcohol, divert them towards an education process involving a series of courses and support, much as we do with speeding drivers. That would give them the opportunity to consider their position before they become involved in the heartbreak of a lifelong indulgence in alcohol.
We propose the creation of an alcohol arrest referral scheme, alongside the drug referral scheme. That would allow people who sit in our cells regularly of a weekend at times of crisis to take the opportunity to seek advice and support.
Drinking banning orders could be applied to individuals who have been identified by the courts not only to have engaged in criminality, but to have abused alcohol in a public place. Breaches of those banning orders would bring them back before the courts. That measure would focus on the source of many of those people’s problems.
We also propose alcohol treatment and testing orders as an extension of the current drug treatment and testing orders. If we think that those who engage in drug abuse should be subjected to regular testing and that that has a significant effect in disciplining their lifestyle and bringing them back to a healthy way of living, why should we not apply the same rigours to those who engage in alcohol abuse, which kills many more people in our communities?
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02305, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I call the cabin...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I do so with a sense of déjà vu, although I hope ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I have made this point before but I will make it again. Does the Government share the view that we should also think about the ownership structure of the alc...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
The bill seeks to deal with bigger issues than that. Our alcohol industry has a great deal to offer our country and its economy and it is in the industry’s i...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
This is not the first time, nor even the second time, that alcohol excess has become a major issue of public alarm in Scotland and the United Kingdom—in fact...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I remind Dr Simpson that Labour’s attempt to introduce a measure on caffeinated drinks came very late in the day—I know because I was there. The Health and S...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I have said that we thought that the evidence was there, and that was confirmed two weeks after the debate by America’s ban. The evidence is now there.We als...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I have already said that I am happy to discuss with Labour all the proposals. The question for Richard Simpson is: what does Labour propose to do about the p...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I will come to that but the fact is that, since the election, we have not been offered any discussions on the problem at all.The SNP has said repeatedly that...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
Richard Simpson must take care not to misrepresent the Sheffield model. The Sheffield team found a slightly smaller but still significant impact on 18 to 24-...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I am sorry if I am getting under the cabinet secretary’s skin, but it is important that we lay things out. I quote specifically from the Sheffield report and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I call on Duncan McNeil to speak on behalf of the Health and Sport Committee. You have 10 minutes, Mr McNeil.15:30
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise to you and the cabinet secretary for missing her opening remarks. There was a bit of confusion.The eyes of the worl...
Christine Grahame
SNP
I do not want to take on the committee’s convener, but I am going to. From the tone of his speech, I am not quite sure whether he is speaking for the committ...
Duncan McNeil
Lab
I regret the intervention and the inference that I am not responding correctly or appropriately to the committee’s report. The report laid out a majority vie...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Despite the cabinet secretary’s sense of déjà vu, the Scottish Conservatives approach this debate rather differently from our approaches to previous debates ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
It would be helpful if the member clarified whether the Tories intend that the entirety of the bill, or simply the order-making power, should be notified to ...
Ruth Davidson
Con
We would like quite comprehensive notification to the European Commission. In making a voluntary submission, we will have discharged our duty of full diligen...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
We will take forward the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill as a majority Scottish Government. That brings certainty to the process. However, I am ple...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
As the member knows, I supported the arguments for minimum pricing that the cabinet secretary put forward, and I still do. However, I found it rather odd tha...
Bob Doris
SNP
The Scottish Government always takes a sensible approach to taxing the supermarkets—something on which the Labour Party has not been consistent.I want to dis...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Bob Doris
SNP
I do not have time.I want to examine some of Labour’s misleading claims against minimum pricing, for instance in relation to binge drinking. The Health and S...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is with some concern that I enter the debate. Over the decades, I have become used to the notion that when alcohol is present in any discussion it can cau...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Given the member’s background and his knowledge of the effect of alcohol on society, are the views that he is expressing his or his party’s?
Graeme Pearson
Lab
The views that I have expressed thus far are based on my experience of nearly 40 years in law enforcement. The member is familiar with the debates that have ...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Those are all superb and worthy examples, but it would certainly be possible to have minimum unit pricing alongside the measures that the member very reasona...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The member has 30 seconds left.
Graeme Pearson
Lab
We are here to debate our way forward in that regard, and I have no doubt that, at the debate’s conclusion, we will all make our choices.Alcohol offences inf...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
The member must come to a conclusion.