Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012
14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We would like quite comprehensive notification to the European Commission. In making a voluntary submission, we will have discharged our duty of full diligence in the legislative process.
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s agreement to voluntary notification, but I seek clarification today of the precise form that that notification will take; the detail of the timescale in which she intends to refer the matter; and an indication of the date by which she expects a response. This is not a side issue. I hope that the Government, having agreed to voluntary notification, will get on with it.
I have dealt with technical and procedural matters; let us turn to the substance of the proposals. Even if we assume that the policy will have a measurable impact, we are under no illusion that it will be a silver bullet. Underage people will still consume alcohol, there will still be crime and disorder, and drink-fuelled domestic abuse will still be a blight on our nation. There is no panacea for those issues, and we have realistic expectations of what can be achieved, even if minimum pricing is successful in meeting its objectives.
That is why, in the discussions and correspondence involving our health spokesman Jackson Carlaw, myself as the party leader, and the cabinet secretary over many weeks and months, Jackson Carlaw and I have sought to highlight the Conservatives’ commitment to further working in areas of education and community support and on further public health measures in order to effect a cultural shift across Scotland in relation to alcohol. I thank the cabinet secretary for her straight dealing with both of us in that time and for her recognition of our good faith while the discussions continued. We sought assurances from her that we can look beyond price and work on other measures to address the alcohol culture in Scotland. As a party, the Scottish Conservatives are committed to working more closely in that area with the Government.
Although the Scottish Conservatives remain healthily sceptical, particularly about the assertion that the duty system would be less effective, we sincerely hope that the policy will work. It has been a political priority for Jackson Carlaw and me, as the deputy leader and leader of our party respectively, for Conservatives to play our part in helping to tackle one of the gravest social concerns of our time, which costs this country hundreds of millions of pounds and has immeasurable costs in lives. To give the legislation the authority that only cross-party support can confer, and given the amendments that we intend to lodge and the assurances that the cabinet secretary has indicated that she is willing to provide, I invite other members who may as yet be unconvinced to reconsider their position on the bill.
15:47
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s agreement to voluntary notification, but I seek clarification today of the precise form that that notification will take; the detail of the timescale in which she intends to refer the matter; and an indication of the date by which she expects a response. This is not a side issue. I hope that the Government, having agreed to voluntary notification, will get on with it.
I have dealt with technical and procedural matters; let us turn to the substance of the proposals. Even if we assume that the policy will have a measurable impact, we are under no illusion that it will be a silver bullet. Underage people will still consume alcohol, there will still be crime and disorder, and drink-fuelled domestic abuse will still be a blight on our nation. There is no panacea for those issues, and we have realistic expectations of what can be achieved, even if minimum pricing is successful in meeting its objectives.
That is why, in the discussions and correspondence involving our health spokesman Jackson Carlaw, myself as the party leader, and the cabinet secretary over many weeks and months, Jackson Carlaw and I have sought to highlight the Conservatives’ commitment to further working in areas of education and community support and on further public health measures in order to effect a cultural shift across Scotland in relation to alcohol. I thank the cabinet secretary for her straight dealing with both of us in that time and for her recognition of our good faith while the discussions continued. We sought assurances from her that we can look beyond price and work on other measures to address the alcohol culture in Scotland. As a party, the Scottish Conservatives are committed to working more closely in that area with the Government.
Although the Scottish Conservatives remain healthily sceptical, particularly about the assertion that the duty system would be less effective, we sincerely hope that the policy will work. It has been a political priority for Jackson Carlaw and me, as the deputy leader and leader of our party respectively, for Conservatives to play our part in helping to tackle one of the gravest social concerns of our time, which costs this country hundreds of millions of pounds and has immeasurable costs in lives. To give the legislation the authority that only cross-party support can confer, and given the amendments that we intend to lodge and the assurances that the cabinet secretary has indicated that she is willing to provide, I invite other members who may as yet be unconvinced to reconsider their position on the bill.
15:47
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02305, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I call the cabin...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I do so with a sense of déjà vu, although I hope ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I have made this point before but I will make it again. Does the Government share the view that we should also think about the ownership structure of the alc...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
The bill seeks to deal with bigger issues than that. Our alcohol industry has a great deal to offer our country and its economy and it is in the industry’s i...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
This is not the first time, nor even the second time, that alcohol excess has become a major issue of public alarm in Scotland and the United Kingdom—in fact...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I remind Dr Simpson that Labour’s attempt to introduce a measure on caffeinated drinks came very late in the day—I know because I was there. The Health and S...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I have said that we thought that the evidence was there, and that was confirmed two weeks after the debate by America’s ban. The evidence is now there.We als...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I have already said that I am happy to discuss with Labour all the proposals. The question for Richard Simpson is: what does Labour propose to do about the p...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I will come to that but the fact is that, since the election, we have not been offered any discussions on the problem at all.The SNP has said repeatedly that...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
Richard Simpson must take care not to misrepresent the Sheffield model. The Sheffield team found a slightly smaller but still significant impact on 18 to 24-...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I am sorry if I am getting under the cabinet secretary’s skin, but it is important that we lay things out. I quote specifically from the Sheffield report and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I call on Duncan McNeil to speak on behalf of the Health and Sport Committee. You have 10 minutes, Mr McNeil.15:30
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise to you and the cabinet secretary for missing her opening remarks. There was a bit of confusion.The eyes of the worl...
Christine Grahame
SNP
I do not want to take on the committee’s convener, but I am going to. From the tone of his speech, I am not quite sure whether he is speaking for the committ...
Duncan McNeil
Lab
I regret the intervention and the inference that I am not responding correctly or appropriately to the committee’s report. The report laid out a majority vie...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Despite the cabinet secretary’s sense of déjà vu, the Scottish Conservatives approach this debate rather differently from our approaches to previous debates ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
It would be helpful if the member clarified whether the Tories intend that the entirety of the bill, or simply the order-making power, should be notified to ...
Ruth Davidson
Con
We would like quite comprehensive notification to the European Commission. In making a voluntary submission, we will have discharged our duty of full diligen...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
We will take forward the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill as a majority Scottish Government. That brings certainty to the process. However, I am ple...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
As the member knows, I supported the arguments for minimum pricing that the cabinet secretary put forward, and I still do. However, I found it rather odd tha...
Bob Doris
SNP
The Scottish Government always takes a sensible approach to taxing the supermarkets—something on which the Labour Party has not been consistent.I want to dis...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Bob Doris
SNP
I do not have time.I want to examine some of Labour’s misleading claims against minimum pricing, for instance in relation to binge drinking. The Health and S...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is with some concern that I enter the debate. Over the decades, I have become used to the notion that when alcohol is present in any discussion it can cau...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Given the member’s background and his knowledge of the effect of alcohol on society, are the views that he is expressing his or his party’s?
Graeme Pearson
Lab
The views that I have expressed thus far are based on my experience of nearly 40 years in law enforcement. The member is familiar with the debates that have ...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Those are all superb and worthy examples, but it would certainly be possible to have minimum unit pricing alongside the measures that the member very reasona...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The member has 30 seconds left.
Graeme Pearson
Lab
We are here to debate our way forward in that regard, and I have no doubt that, at the debate’s conclusion, we will all make our choices.Alcohol offences inf...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
The member must come to a conclusion.