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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012

14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Simpson, Dr Richard Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV
I am sorry if I am getting under the cabinet secretary’s skin, but it is important that we lay things out. I quote specifically from the Sheffield report and ask her whether she thinks that it is a good reduction. For 18 to 24-year-olds, a minimum unit price of 45p would result in a reduction of 0.6 per cent. For every 100 pints that young adults drink, they are predicted to drink one pint less. I do not regard that as being significant. It may be statistically significant, but I cannot believe that it is clinically significant.

Even the harmful drinkers who, according to the Sheffield report, drink an average of 58 units a week—29 pints or two bottles of vodka a week—will reduce their drinking, on average, only by 5 units, or two and a half pints. It was Ross Finnie who pointed that out last session. They will still be harmful drinkers. I accept that those are averages—of course they are. However, when the Sheffield study states that the average consumption for moderate drinkers is only 5 units—two glasses of wine—a week, I wonder about the model.

My concerns have gone further, as those who have listened know. The number of hazardous drinkers increases with each decile of increasing income, and it is that pattern of hazardous drinking that we have simply got to change. The proportion of cheaper alcohol in the basket of alcohol purchased is less in the higher-income groups but it is still significant, and minimum unit pricing will barely touch the wealthier 70 per cent of the population—they can absorb with ease any proportionate price increase that the cabinet secretary cares to name. Minimum unit pricing will punish those who are less well-off if they are moderate drinkers at a higher level. For example, a man of modest means who drinks 20 units a week—a bottle of vodka a week—will now pay a minimum unit tax of £200 a year, which I do not regard as appropriate. The less well-off, who are drinking safely and moderately, will have to pay a price for those who are drinking irresponsibly.

The cabinet secretary has referred to other concerns such as internet sales, cross-border purchasing and increased black market or counterfeit sales. Those are concerns, but they are lesser concerns. Nigel Hawkes, writing in the British Medical Journal the other week, said:

“a deal which gives the retailers, who are part of the problem, over 100 million pounds and takes away millions from the taxpayer is a deal not worth doing.”

We urgently need measures to change the culture. We must confront those who get intoxicated on our streets. We need a return to a culture in which getting drunk is not acceptable. A general taxation approach is preferable, building on Alistair Darling’s alcohol duty escalator, which the coalition is continuing, along with new measures from the coalition, which include changing the definition of cider and encouraging lower-strength beer. Those measures will have an effect. A taxation or levy approach would be much more equitable and would generate revenue for the public purse, not for alcohol retailers.

It is ironic that, despite complaining that it does not control alcohol duty, the SNP is refusing to implement the social responsibility levy that the Parliament passed. Labour still believes that introducing minimum unit pricing with no adequate clawback mechanism risks doing more harm than good by generating windfalls in excess of £100 million.

However, we are responding to the cabinet secretary’s welcome and more measured tone both at committee and today—with her agreement to notify on the legality and to insert the sunset clause—in the hope that she will also refer the research measures to the new chief scientist, Professor Andrew Morris. Therefore, despite our continued real reservations about the unintendeds of the bill, we have lodged our reasoned amendment, which I hope that the cabinet secretary will accept, to allow us to move forward unanimously.

On that basis, I move amendment S4M-02305.1, to insert at end:

“but, in so doing, strongly believes that the Scottish Government should bring forward proposals to eliminate the windfall to large retailers arising from the minimum unit price by means of the proposed public health levy or other targeted levy.”

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02305, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I call the cabin...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I do so with a sense of déjà vu, although I hope ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I have made this point before but I will make it again. Does the Government share the view that we should also think about the ownership structure of the alc...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
The bill seeks to deal with bigger issues than that. Our alcohol industry has a great deal to offer our country and its economy and it is in the industry’s i...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
This is not the first time, nor even the second time, that alcohol excess has become a major issue of public alarm in Scotland and the United Kingdom—in fact...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I remind Dr Simpson that Labour’s attempt to introduce a measure on caffeinated drinks came very late in the day—I know because I was there. The Health and S...
Dr Simpson Lab
I have said that we thought that the evidence was there, and that was confirmed two weeks after the debate by America’s ban. The evidence is now there.We als...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I have already said that I am happy to discuss with Labour all the proposals. The question for Richard Simpson is: what does Labour propose to do about the p...
Dr Simpson Lab
I will come to that but the fact is that, since the election, we have not been offered any discussions on the problem at all.The SNP has said repeatedly that...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Richard Simpson must take care not to misrepresent the Sheffield model. The Sheffield team found a slightly smaller but still significant impact on 18 to 24-...
Dr Simpson Lab
I am sorry if I am getting under the cabinet secretary’s skin, but it is important that we lay things out. I quote specifically from the Sheffield report and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call on Duncan McNeil to speak on behalf of the Health and Sport Committee. You have 10 minutes, Mr McNeil.15:30
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise to you and the cabinet secretary for missing her opening remarks. There was a bit of confusion.The eyes of the worl...
Christine Grahame SNP
I do not want to take on the committee’s convener, but I am going to. From the tone of his speech, I am not quite sure whether he is speaking for the committ...
Duncan McNeil Lab
I regret the intervention and the inference that I am not responding correctly or appropriately to the committee’s report. The report laid out a majority vie...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Despite the cabinet secretary’s sense of déjà vu, the Scottish Conservatives approach this debate rather differently from our approaches to previous debates ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It would be helpful if the member clarified whether the Tories intend that the entirety of the bill, or simply the order-making power, should be notified to ...
Ruth Davidson Con
We would like quite comprehensive notification to the European Commission. In making a voluntary submission, we will have discharged our duty of full diligen...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
We will take forward the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill as a majority Scottish Government. That brings certainty to the process. However, I am ple...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
As the member knows, I supported the arguments for minimum pricing that the cabinet secretary put forward, and I still do. However, I found it rather odd tha...
Bob Doris SNP
The Scottish Government always takes a sensible approach to taxing the supermarkets—something on which the Labour Party has not been consistent.I want to dis...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Bob Doris SNP
I do not have time.I want to examine some of Labour’s misleading claims against minimum pricing, for instance in relation to binge drinking. The Health and S...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is with some concern that I enter the debate. Over the decades, I have become used to the notion that when alcohol is present in any discussion it can cau...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Given the member’s background and his knowledge of the effect of alcohol on society, are the views that he is expressing his or his party’s?
Graeme Pearson Lab
The views that I have expressed thus far are based on my experience of nearly 40 years in law enforcement. The member is familiar with the debates that have ...
Christine Grahame SNP
Those are all superb and worthy examples, but it would certainly be possible to have minimum unit pricing alongside the measures that the member very reasona...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The member has 30 seconds left.
Graeme Pearson Lab
We are here to debate our way forward in that regard, and I have no doubt that, at the debate’s conclusion, we will all make our choices.Alcohol offences inf...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
The member must come to a conclusion.