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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012

14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two points and leave the minister with more time to respond to the debate. That is not a cop-out on my part, because I was struck during the debate by a number of points that attracted attention from members on all sides of the chamber, not least the issue of voluntary registration and how we make people register, which is key to the bill’s success.

I am pretty relaxed about targets. The much-vaunted target for tourism, for example, was set with the best of intentions, and now everyone keeps hanging their argument on it. The lesson to be learned is that, if the bill changes things for the better, we should assess the practical consequences of its implementation and consider whether adjustment or change is necessary.

I was struck by some of the contributions on inducing greater voluntary registration. Hanzala Malik made an interesting point about large landowners such as the MOD. The MOD may well be amenable to an approach, and other larger landowners may take the same view. I noted that James Kelly and Paul Wheelhouse share my view that the charging mechanism could be the key, and I would like to hear the minister’s comments on that.

On the accuracy of the land register, members such as Paul Wheelhouse made some good points about the genuine practical problems, particularly for remoter rural areas. Rob Gibson made an interesting point, but I am not quite sure whether I understood him completely. He seemed to be focusing on the OS map as the problem, and arguing that we should make that better. My concern is that, at present, I do not think that we can make an OS-based system better at dealing with issues relating to plots in rural areas on an appropriate scale. One line on an OS map may be a difference of several metres on the ground, which could be critical for the accuracy of title conferment and title interpretation. I go back to the point that we must ensure that the keeper is armed with all the ancillary information that she can get. There is a huge obligation on the registration applicant’s solicitor to provide as much information as possible. That may include professionally drawn surveyor’s plans and—as Mike MacKenzie indicated—information that is held in the old sasines system.

Surely whatever informs the keeper about how to register a title is worth while only if it is given some type of legal status in the archive. Otherwise, where is the keeper to go when there is a subsequent registration application? I would like the minister to comment on that.

It was no surprise to hear that a number of members on all sides of the chamber have profound concerns about section 108. Obviously, members of the minister’s own party were a little more circumspect in their observations, while others, such as myself, were a little blunter, but I would like to hear the minister’s further comments in that regard.

14:48

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02304, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.13:34
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing) SNP
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland.As convener of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, I mention that the committee recom...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I will consider further and respond in due course on reduced fees for voluntary registration. Does Mr Fraser agree that there is an incentive for voluntary r...
Murdo Fraser Con
The minister has made a fair point. In his opening speech he mentioned the proposal to introduce time-and-line fees. Higher costs would potentially act as a ...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I do not want to interrupt the flow of Mr Fraser’s speech too frequently, but I ask him—as one solicitor to another—whether it is fair to say that the high c...
Murdo Fraser Con
That is a fair point, although I am sure that when Mr Ewing was in practice he was very reasonable in the fees that he charged—as, indeed, was I.The offence ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I associate myself with the thanks that Murdo Fraser and the minister offered to those who provided evidence to and assisted the committee. The bill is large...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Is it the Labour Party’s position that only companies or individuals who are resident and domiciled in Scotland should be able to buy land in Scotland?
Rhoda Grant Lab
No. If Mr MacKenzie listens to the points that I will make, he might understand where I am coming from.The land reform legislation was based on the need to k...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It is a challenge to bring some verve and spice to the issue of land registration. The subject does not brim with pulsating excitement. Things were a lot mor...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. I remind all speakers that they have a fairly tight 10-minute time limit. Interruption. I am sorry: I meant to say four minut...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of t...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As one of the non-lawyers on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, it was with a sense of trepidation that I started out on my journey through scrutiny ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
This is an interesting topic. I have witnessed huge amounts of difficulty overseas, in particular for farmers who have smallholdings. When an inheritance has...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
When I offered to speak in today’s debate, I was aware that I would be doing so more from a sense of how important the bill is than from a position of taking...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. As someone who is not a member of the Economy, Energy and Tou...
Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. ...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I have an interest in the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill dovetailing w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I strongly commend Rob Gibson for much of what he said. In addition, I thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s work, in whatever capacity.My fellow...
Annabel Goldie Con
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two poin...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge that, although the bill is largely technical, most of its proposals have been welcomed and are required if we are to improve land registration....
Fergus Ewing SNP
I have thoroughly enjoyed the debate. There have been useful contributions from all sides. If I do not reply in my short speech to some of the suggestions an...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I will carry on for a bit, if I may.Mr Harvie acknowledged that point, as did others. I can tell him that we have had some discussions on the matter and offi...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the minister allow his officials to have discussions with Opposition members prior to stage 2, so that we understand the limits of what the Government t...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I always do that.Why are reserves necessary? First, because the keeper cannot have access to consolidated funds; she must balance her budget. She does not ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You have another four minutes.
Fergus Ewing SNP
Oh good. I thought that I needed to finish.