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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012

14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. I was not involved in the study, but I had initial discussions with Registers of Scotland officers in framing the tender that we submitted. I also have a role in the Finance Committee; we had a low level of scrutiny of the bill, so there was not much evidence to go on.

I note that the estimated annual cost of the proposals is £3.85 million against an annual income to Registers of Scotland of £48.6 million, and that it is expected that efficiencies will arise to Registers of Scotland that will partly offset the annual cost. I also note the £19 million cost over the first five years, which puts in context the figures that James Kelly rightly highlighted when he spoke about Registers of Scotland’s reserves. Registers of Scotland is quite unusual in the public sector in that it needs to be self-sustaining. Its reserves are therefore an important part of its finances and of ensuring that it maintains its on-going operations.

The benefits from the bill will not just be to property owners, investors and authorities in reducing potential risks from inaccurate information. I will highlight a few benefits that I am aware of, having worked in the property sector, although not as a lawyer like Murdo Fraser and some other members. I have used the data that Registers of Scotland has produced. It is extremely important that the information is accurate, not only to understand who owns the land, but to understand what is happening in property markets.

Registers of Scotland has substantial reserves, which should keep the costs down. As others have stated, they could perhaps provide some scope for keeping the registration costs down and encouraging voluntary registrations. I noted the minister’s comment that, in effect, landed estates have a window of opportunity to increase the amount of land that is registered at an advantageous rate. That is an important point to raise.

I agree with Annabel Goldie on the mapping issues. The suggested tolerances for Ordnance Survey maps of 0.3m to 0.4m might sound accurate to some, but in the context of property they create the opportunity for ransom strips. The strips might be thin but, if there is some doubt about who owns them, they could cause all sorts of problems in securing investment. I agree with James Kelly about the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee’s excellent degree of thoroughness. Paragraph 78 of the committee’s report suggests that consideration has been taken of the cost of mapping and that the use of Ordnance Survey mapping should continue, with the understanding that, although it is perhaps not the ideal form of mapping for registration, it keeps costs to a reasonable level.

Paragraph 77 notes that Ross MacKay of the Law Society of Scotland told that committee that

“the difficulty at the moment is that many titles are based on old sasines, which have no maps at all.”—[Official Report, Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, 11 January 2012; c 753.]

A map that is not perfect is better than no map at all. That is something to bear in mind.

As a community councillor, I was aware of regular problems in my local area to do with buildings at risk. It is difficult to enable the council to take enforcement action to ensure that a building at risk is maintained or improved if we cannot trace who the real owner is.

On common good land, there is the recent example of a wind farm at Drone hill in the Coldingham area of east Berwickshire. The wind farm had been approved and it was subsequently discovered that Drone moss, a site of special scientific interest, was technically still owned by the local community of Ayton but no one could identify who the legal owners were. My point is that registration has some practical benefits to local community organisations.

14:36

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02304, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.13:34
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing) SNP
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland.As convener of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, I mention that the committee recom...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I will consider further and respond in due course on reduced fees for voluntary registration. Does Mr Fraser agree that there is an incentive for voluntary r...
Murdo Fraser Con
The minister has made a fair point. In his opening speech he mentioned the proposal to introduce time-and-line fees. Higher costs would potentially act as a ...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I do not want to interrupt the flow of Mr Fraser’s speech too frequently, but I ask him—as one solicitor to another—whether it is fair to say that the high c...
Murdo Fraser Con
That is a fair point, although I am sure that when Mr Ewing was in practice he was very reasonable in the fees that he charged—as, indeed, was I.The offence ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I associate myself with the thanks that Murdo Fraser and the minister offered to those who provided evidence to and assisted the committee. The bill is large...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Is it the Labour Party’s position that only companies or individuals who are resident and domiciled in Scotland should be able to buy land in Scotland?
Rhoda Grant Lab
No. If Mr MacKenzie listens to the points that I will make, he might understand where I am coming from.The land reform legislation was based on the need to k...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It is a challenge to bring some verve and spice to the issue of land registration. The subject does not brim with pulsating excitement. Things were a lot mor...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. I remind all speakers that they have a fairly tight 10-minute time limit. Interruption. I am sorry: I meant to say four minut...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of t...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As one of the non-lawyers on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, it was with a sense of trepidation that I started out on my journey through scrutiny ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
This is an interesting topic. I have witnessed huge amounts of difficulty overseas, in particular for farmers who have smallholdings. When an inheritance has...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
When I offered to speak in today’s debate, I was aware that I would be doing so more from a sense of how important the bill is than from a position of taking...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. As someone who is not a member of the Economy, Energy and Tou...
Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. ...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I have an interest in the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill dovetailing w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I strongly commend Rob Gibson for much of what he said. In addition, I thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s work, in whatever capacity.My fellow...
Annabel Goldie Con
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two poin...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge that, although the bill is largely technical, most of its proposals have been welcomed and are required if we are to improve land registration....
Fergus Ewing SNP
I have thoroughly enjoyed the debate. There have been useful contributions from all sides. If I do not reply in my short speech to some of the suggestions an...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I will carry on for a bit, if I may.Mr Harvie acknowledged that point, as did others. I can tell him that we have had some discussions on the matter and offi...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the minister allow his officials to have discussions with Opposition members prior to stage 2, so that we understand the limits of what the Government t...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I always do that.Why are reserves necessary? First, because the keeper cannot have access to consolidated funds; she must balance her budget. She does not ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You have another four minutes.
Fergus Ewing SNP
Oh good. I thought that I needed to finish.