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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012

14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
MacKenzie, Mike SNP Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin legal term—in my previous career I had various practical experiences of the difficulties that are sometimes presented by our system of conveyancing and land registration. I compliment my colleagues on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee on a good example of working together in a largely consensual but effective manner in our scrutiny of the bill.

An effective land registration system is of fundamental importance in a property-owning democracy. Although I support the general aims of the bill, it is unfortunate that we do not seem to pay sufficient tribute to our original register of sasines. Cumbersome as it now is, it has operated fairly well over a considerable period and we must be careful that our efforts to modernise the system do not have unintended consequences. It is easy to criticise the old system. While it is true to say that there are many old titles that are vague or inaccurate, it is also true to say that some titles approach the level of works of art in their efforts to describe and define properties accurately. As a body of documentation, they describe much of the history of our country and are a tribute to our legal profession. They remain a valuable resource and, where possible, should be used to clarify current title certificates.

Modernisation presents considerable challenges. The Ordnance Survey map is not always as accurate as it ideally should be, especially in rural areas, which has given rise to historical errors and continues to give rise to errors. With modern global positioning systems and other surveying systems becoming increasingly capable of affordable accuracy, many of those errors are coming to light for the first time. Human error, whether from historical bad drafting of titles or from errors in first registrations, must also be acknowledged. Any modernisation system must provide an efficient and cost-effective mechanism for the resolution of those mistakes.

I am glad that the bill also contains proposals to improve the situation regarding a non domino acquisition, as such acquisitions often present opportunities to correct historical errors or unfairnesses.

We received a lot of evidence from Andy Wightman. I have a great deal of respect for him and the idealism that he advocates, but his suggestion that we should advertise or hold auctions of land of unknown ownership could give rise to profound practical difficulties. Nevertheless, I congratulate him on his recent book, which is a readable and lucid account of what can, in less capable hands, be a dry subject.

Finally, I must support my friends in the legal profession who are rightly concerned about the proposal in section 108 to introduce a criminal offence for what might be innocent errors on their part. That might create onerous obligations on them and on buyers or sellers, who would be required to protect their innocence. I was glad to hear from the minister that he will think carefully about that aspect of the bill.

14:16

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02304, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.13:34
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing) SNP
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland.As convener of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, I mention that the committee recom...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I will consider further and respond in due course on reduced fees for voluntary registration. Does Mr Fraser agree that there is an incentive for voluntary r...
Murdo Fraser Con
The minister has made a fair point. In his opening speech he mentioned the proposal to introduce time-and-line fees. Higher costs would potentially act as a ...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I do not want to interrupt the flow of Mr Fraser’s speech too frequently, but I ask him—as one solicitor to another—whether it is fair to say that the high c...
Murdo Fraser Con
That is a fair point, although I am sure that when Mr Ewing was in practice he was very reasonable in the fees that he charged—as, indeed, was I.The offence ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I associate myself with the thanks that Murdo Fraser and the minister offered to those who provided evidence to and assisted the committee. The bill is large...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Is it the Labour Party’s position that only companies or individuals who are resident and domiciled in Scotland should be able to buy land in Scotland?
Rhoda Grant Lab
No. If Mr MacKenzie listens to the points that I will make, he might understand where I am coming from.The land reform legislation was based on the need to k...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It is a challenge to bring some verve and spice to the issue of land registration. The subject does not brim with pulsating excitement. Things were a lot mor...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. I remind all speakers that they have a fairly tight 10-minute time limit. Interruption. I am sorry: I meant to say four minut...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of t...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As one of the non-lawyers on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, it was with a sense of trepidation that I started out on my journey through scrutiny ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
This is an interesting topic. I have witnessed huge amounts of difficulty overseas, in particular for farmers who have smallholdings. When an inheritance has...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
When I offered to speak in today’s debate, I was aware that I would be doing so more from a sense of how important the bill is than from a position of taking...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. As someone who is not a member of the Economy, Energy and Tou...
Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. ...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I have an interest in the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill dovetailing w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I strongly commend Rob Gibson for much of what he said. In addition, I thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s work, in whatever capacity.My fellow...
Annabel Goldie Con
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two poin...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge that, although the bill is largely technical, most of its proposals have been welcomed and are required if we are to improve land registration....
Fergus Ewing SNP
I have thoroughly enjoyed the debate. There have been useful contributions from all sides. If I do not reply in my short speech to some of the suggestions an...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I will carry on for a bit, if I may.Mr Harvie acknowledged that point, as did others. I can tell him that we have had some discussions on the matter and offi...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the minister allow his officials to have discussions with Opposition members prior to stage 2, so that we understand the limits of what the Government t...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I always do that.Why are reserves necessary? First, because the keeper cannot have access to consolidated funds; she must balance her budget. She does not ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You have another four minutes.
Fergus Ewing SNP
Oh good. I thought that I needed to finish.