Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 March 2012
15 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Library of Scotland Bill: Stage 1
The National Library of Scotland is an extremely important resource for the people of Scotland, so any changes to its structure and operating procedures must be given careful consideration.
Originally set up in the 1680s as the library of the Faculty of Advocates, it was formed as the National Library of Scotland when the contents of the faculty’s library were presented to the nation, together with an endowment of £100,000 from Sir Alexander Grant of Forres, because the upkeep of the collection had become too much for a private body. Officially established as the National Library of Scotland by the National Library of Scotland Act 1925, it is Scotland’s only legal deposit library, which means that it is entitled to receive a copy of all printed items that are published in the UK and the Republic of Ireland.
As well as the collections that it has received via legal deposit, the National Library has acquired books, maps, music and manuscripts through gift, loan or purchase, and it has a wide collection of important items that relate to the history of Scotland, the Scots and our culture. It has a collection of more than 7 million books, 14 million printed items and more than 2 million maps. It also holds many ancient family manuscripts, including those of clan Sinclair, which date back as far as 1488.
The library holds the last letter written by Mary, Queen of Scots, which was shown publicly to mark the opening of the new library visitor centre in September 2009. It holds a copy of the Gutenberg Bible, which was the first major book to be produced on a printing press; the letter that Charles Darwin submitted with the manuscript of “On the Origin of Species”; the Chepman and Myllar prints, which are the only known copies of nine of the earliest books to be printed in Scotland, and which were produced on Scotland’s first printing press in approximately 1508; the first pictorial survey of Scotland, which was published in 1693 by John Slezer; and, perhaps most important, copies of the first two “Oor Wullie” annuals, which were published in 1940 and 1942. They date back far beyond my collection, which grows every two years thanks to Christmas presents from my mum.
The library is now a non-departmental public body that is funded by the Scottish Government, and it is also a registered Scottish charity. It is responsible for a budget of just under £15 million for the current financial year. The library employs approximately 300 staff, and it attracts thousands of people to the library and to the outreach programmes that are held across Scotland, including roadshows and support for local book festivals.
On the changes that are proposed to the library, one of the key recommendations is a reduction in the size of its board. I know from the cabinet secretary’s evidence to the committee and her comments today that she is not in favour of larger boards, but I am pleased that she has committed to increasing the minimum number of board members from seven. A recent report for the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator indicated that charities with a low number of trustees are the most likely to fail and that those with nine members or more perform best. I am in a similar position to that of the committee in that I do not feel able to make a recommendation on what the optimum number of board members would be, but I am content that the Government has taken note of the report for OSCR, which supports having a board that has a minimum of nine members and the right number of people to cover the range of skills and experience that it feels are required.
At the same time, I welcome the Government’s expectation that the board should represent broader society and the opportunity that there will be for the board to gender balance its membership and to increase opportunities for younger people to join it, to help drive forward a future digital participation strategy.
Another proposed change is the provision for a ministerial power of direction, which has proved to be relatively contentious. I understand why the cabinet secretary favours such a power, as it will allow for proper audit and accountability to Government. The library is funded by taxpayers’ money, so it is beneficial to have a direct line of ministerial accountability.
Regardless of that, the proposal has still proved to be relatively contentious. National Museums Scotland, the National Library of Wales, the British Library and the National Library of Scotland, among others, have all expressed concern about a power of ministerial direction and its implications for the board and the charitable status of the library, although I note that the Government took advice from OSCR, which confirmed that the library is exempt from certain aspects of the charity test. That means that the power of direction is compatible with the library’s charitable status.
Originally set up in the 1680s as the library of the Faculty of Advocates, it was formed as the National Library of Scotland when the contents of the faculty’s library were presented to the nation, together with an endowment of £100,000 from Sir Alexander Grant of Forres, because the upkeep of the collection had become too much for a private body. Officially established as the National Library of Scotland by the National Library of Scotland Act 1925, it is Scotland’s only legal deposit library, which means that it is entitled to receive a copy of all printed items that are published in the UK and the Republic of Ireland.
As well as the collections that it has received via legal deposit, the National Library has acquired books, maps, music and manuscripts through gift, loan or purchase, and it has a wide collection of important items that relate to the history of Scotland, the Scots and our culture. It has a collection of more than 7 million books, 14 million printed items and more than 2 million maps. It also holds many ancient family manuscripts, including those of clan Sinclair, which date back as far as 1488.
The library holds the last letter written by Mary, Queen of Scots, which was shown publicly to mark the opening of the new library visitor centre in September 2009. It holds a copy of the Gutenberg Bible, which was the first major book to be produced on a printing press; the letter that Charles Darwin submitted with the manuscript of “On the Origin of Species”; the Chepman and Myllar prints, which are the only known copies of nine of the earliest books to be printed in Scotland, and which were produced on Scotland’s first printing press in approximately 1508; the first pictorial survey of Scotland, which was published in 1693 by John Slezer; and, perhaps most important, copies of the first two “Oor Wullie” annuals, which were published in 1940 and 1942. They date back far beyond my collection, which grows every two years thanks to Christmas presents from my mum.
The library is now a non-departmental public body that is funded by the Scottish Government, and it is also a registered Scottish charity. It is responsible for a budget of just under £15 million for the current financial year. The library employs approximately 300 staff, and it attracts thousands of people to the library and to the outreach programmes that are held across Scotland, including roadshows and support for local book festivals.
On the changes that are proposed to the library, one of the key recommendations is a reduction in the size of its board. I know from the cabinet secretary’s evidence to the committee and her comments today that she is not in favour of larger boards, but I am pleased that she has committed to increasing the minimum number of board members from seven. A recent report for the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator indicated that charities with a low number of trustees are the most likely to fail and that those with nine members or more perform best. I am in a similar position to that of the committee in that I do not feel able to make a recommendation on what the optimum number of board members would be, but I am content that the Government has taken note of the report for OSCR, which supports having a board that has a minimum of nine members and the right number of people to cover the range of skills and experience that it feels are required.
At the same time, I welcome the Government’s expectation that the board should represent broader society and the opportunity that there will be for the board to gender balance its membership and to increase opportunities for younger people to join it, to help drive forward a future digital participation strategy.
Another proposed change is the provision for a ministerial power of direction, which has proved to be relatively contentious. I understand why the cabinet secretary favours such a power, as it will allow for proper audit and accountability to Government. The library is funded by taxpayers’ money, so it is beneficial to have a direct line of ministerial accountability.
Regardless of that, the proposal has still proved to be relatively contentious. National Museums Scotland, the National Library of Wales, the British Library and the National Library of Scotland, among others, have all expressed concern about a power of ministerial direction and its implications for the board and the charitable status of the library, although I note that the Government took advice from OSCR, which confirmed that the library is exempt from certain aspects of the charity test. That means that the power of direction is compatible with the library’s charitable status.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02332, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the National Library of Scotland Bill.14:55
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the National Library of Scotland Bill. I thank the people who gave evidence and I thank the conv...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
On behalf of the Education and Culture Committee, I make clear from the outset our unanimous support for the general principles of the National Library of Sc...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I was going to whisper at the start of my speech, but that would have been a cheap and obvious libraries joke, and I would never indulge in such a thing.It i...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
In my opening remarks, I indicated that I would be willing to move the bottom end from seven up to nine. The range of board membership will be very similar t...
Neil Findlay
Lab
That is helpful.Reform is also about meeting challenges and embracing wider societal and technological change, and it is clear that the NLS has been proactiv...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
With regard to a number of points that Neil Findlay has raised, it is important to look again at the functions of the NLS. If it did anything to jeopardise a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
You must come to a close.
Neil Findlay
Lab
Parts of the bill are to be welcomed, but others raise questions about the role of libraries in general and the specific nature of the NLS. I raise those iss...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I apologise on behalf of my colleague Annabel Goldie, who is, sadly, not well today, and thank my colleague Alex Johnstone, who has come into the hot seat at...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I remind the member that for the Public Service Reform (Scotland) Bill the Conservatives lodged an amendment that would have given ministers greater power to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You are in your last minute, Ms Smith.
Liz Smith
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I accept what the cabinet secretary said. Others were also a bit concerned about the issue. Ministerial power should be about be...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am a proud Lanarkshire lass who was born in Motherwell, which is one of the burghs that were blessed with the gift of a Carnegie library. I spent much of m...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The National Library of Scotland is an extremely important resource for the people of Scotland, so any changes to its structure and operating procedures must...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I will come back to the issue of charitable status in my closing remarks, but I ask the member to acknowledge that some of the comments that he referred to w...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I take that on board, and I appreciate that OSCR has confirmed that the power of direction would not impede the library having charitable status.However, the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I am glad to hear it. I need to ask you to finish.
Mark Griffin
Lab
That issue should be at the forefront of any changes to the library, and I hope that the cabinet secretary and the new board will give it due consideration.1...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I begin by making two declarations of interest: as many members know, I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals; and,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We are slightly tight for time, so I ask members to stick to their six minutes, please, if they can.15:49
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
As I worked in libraries for many years, I start by putting on record my appreciation for the good work of libraries across Scotland and for the National Lib...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
I declare an interest, which has already been alluded to. As the MSP for Edinburgh Central, I am one of the ex officio members of the board of the National L...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I congratulate the cabinet secretary on the tone and content of her speech, much of which anticipated comments that I was going to make, and I welcome the an...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Little did I think when I got up this morning that I would find myself speaking in a debate on the National Library of Scotland. Nevertheless, to my surprise...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Can you come to a conclusion, please?
Alex Johnstone
Con
Indeed. Much more could be said on the subject, but given my lack of expertise it would make good sense for me to thank the cabinet secretary for her concess...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Given the lack of time, I am grateful to you.16:13
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
This has been a consensual debate, which has reflected the consensual nature of the committee’s discussions. I welcome Alex Johnstone to the world of culture...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I thank the members who have spoken in the debate, and I would say that Alex Johnstone is living testament to the fact that libraries broaden the mind. I am ...