Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 March 2012
15 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Offenders (Rehabilitation)
I thank Alison McInnes for bringing this debate to the chamber, and I hope that she is less disappointed after hearing the cabinet secretary’s reassurances that he is not dismissing the social impact bonds but has an open mind on many of the suggestions and is looking at many different ways of resolving some of the problems of reoffending.
Rehabilitation is extremely important, but so is understanding why people offend in the first instance. Members across the chamber acknowledge, I think, that there are far too many people in the criminal justice system and in prison who, because of the type of offence that they have committed, probably should not be there. Christine Grahame made a valid point about how often it is a cycle that needs to be broken. Too often families engage in the cycle because their parents did, and perhaps their parents before them—it is a life of crime. We need to look at the social impact of crime in our society and to afford people who enter into crime new opportunities to move away from it. That is about giving them self-belief, self-worth and self-respect.
People need to respect not only themselves and the wellbeing of their families, but their communities too. We are some way along that journey thanks to the community payback option, which has led to a reduction in reoffending. Communities are benefiting from that model because they engage with the community payback orders that local authorities implement.
Like others, I extend my gratitude to all the third sector parties involved in tackling reoffending. There are so many organisations that afford people various opportunities through their programmes. Turning Point, which has been mentioned, is a valuable organisation that works throughout Scotland.
If there was an easy fix, we would not have this problem, but there is not. We must consider every aspect of reoffending and look at why people get into the offending mode in the first place. As I have mentioned, that often relates to where people are in their lives, whether they are in employment, their family status and their place in society.
We can point the finger at drugs, alcohol and so many other social problems that occur in communities, but many people do not enter into crime, so we must look at the facts that are before us and ask what makes some people go into crime. The majority of crimes are low level, and prison is certainly not the place for those offenders.
With regard to rehabilitation and prisoners’ visiting rights, Mary Fee made the exceptionally good point that prisoners should be in an environment that is conducive to the rehabilitation programme. There is consensus among members from all parties, I think, that we need not only affordable but effective rehabilitation. I look forward to engaging in a further debate, I hope, once we have seen the results from the Angiolini commission later this year.
11:07
Rehabilitation is extremely important, but so is understanding why people offend in the first instance. Members across the chamber acknowledge, I think, that there are far too many people in the criminal justice system and in prison who, because of the type of offence that they have committed, probably should not be there. Christine Grahame made a valid point about how often it is a cycle that needs to be broken. Too often families engage in the cycle because their parents did, and perhaps their parents before them—it is a life of crime. We need to look at the social impact of crime in our society and to afford people who enter into crime new opportunities to move away from it. That is about giving them self-belief, self-worth and self-respect.
People need to respect not only themselves and the wellbeing of their families, but their communities too. We are some way along that journey thanks to the community payback option, which has led to a reduction in reoffending. Communities are benefiting from that model because they engage with the community payback orders that local authorities implement.
Like others, I extend my gratitude to all the third sector parties involved in tackling reoffending. There are so many organisations that afford people various opportunities through their programmes. Turning Point, which has been mentioned, is a valuable organisation that works throughout Scotland.
If there was an easy fix, we would not have this problem, but there is not. We must consider every aspect of reoffending and look at why people get into the offending mode in the first place. As I have mentioned, that often relates to where people are in their lives, whether they are in employment, their family status and their place in society.
We can point the finger at drugs, alcohol and so many other social problems that occur in communities, but many people do not enter into crime, so we must look at the facts that are before us and ask what makes some people go into crime. The majority of crimes are low level, and prison is certainly not the place for those offenders.
With regard to rehabilitation and prisoners’ visiting rights, Mary Fee made the exceptionally good point that prisoners should be in an environment that is conducive to the rehabilitation programme. There is consensus among members from all parties, I think, that we need not only affordable but effective rehabilitation. I look forward to engaging in a further debate, I hope, once we have seen the results from the Angiolini commission later this year.
11:07
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02337, in the name of Alison McInnes, on prisons.10:26
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
It is a pleasure to be able to move my motion. It is not often that we talk about reducing crime in the context of the services that are available for those ...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
The member refers to social impact bonds. The RAND Europe report on planning and implementation of the social impact bond at Peterborough prison highlighted ...
Alison McInnes
LD
No, I do not accept that. There is good reason to proceed with further pilots to assess the model. The Finance Committee has considered the issue and Audit S...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I thank Alison McInnes and my other Liberal Democrat colleagues for highlighting reoffending. I welcome their shared commitment to tackling this difficult is...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
As has been said, an effective justice system must protect communities, support victims and seek to rehabilitate offenders. That means that those who have be...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I thank Alison McInnes for bringing the subject to the chamber and for highlighting an imaginative approach to rehabilitation that is being piloted by the Go...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, very much welcome the debate and the consensus across the chamber about reoffending. I will not reprise the figures and percentages, which have been ...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the Liberal Democrats for bringing the issue to the chamber so that we can have a serious debate on how we address reoffending in Scotland. Reducing ...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Alison McInnes for bringing this debate to the chamber, and I hope that she is less disappointed after hearing the cabinet secretary’s reassurances t...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Unfortunately, I must begin my contribution by agreeing with Christine Grahame and acknowledging all that she said about the 218 project in Glasgow. It is an...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
First of all, I thank Alison McInnes for lodging a motion on what is an important issue. When we think about offenders, we find it all too easy to think pure...
Alison McInnes
LD
Will the member give way?
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I have limited time, so I cannot. When the Justice Committee was taking evidence on the Scottish Government’s budget, we highlighted the fact that the obliga...
David McLetchie
Con
This has been an interesting and useful debate with some excellent contributions. I thank Lewis Macdonald for pointing out that the social impact bond model ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Alison McInnes reminded us of the poor outcomes: 62 per cent of prisoners reoffend, and the figure is even higher for young prisoners. Although there has bee...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Justice debates in the chamber are frequently rumbustious and confrontational, and it is fair to say that, sometimes, they generate more heat than light. How...
Alison McInnes
LD
I do, indeed, welcome the cabinet secretary’s positive comments this morning, but I will press him a little on timescale. In 2009-10, the Scottish Prison Ser...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
As Roderick Campbell eloquently said, we must build on the evidence. The only scheme of which we are aware is in Peterborough and I am happy to look at it, a...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
I welcome the opportunity to sum up what has been an important debate that was led very ably by Alison McInnes on behalf of the Liberal Democrats. The debate...