Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 March 2012
15 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Childcare
I apologise, Presiding Officer.
I thank the Liberals for bringing the debate to Parliament. Nobody in any political party in Parliament doubts how important the subject is. The evidence is overwhelming about early intervention of whatever sort for the health and social wellbeing and the educational achievement of any child. It is important that we debate the matter and take it extremely seriously.
The Liberal motion rightly points to regional variations in supply and costs of childcare. We agree that that is a very difficult situation that needs to be addressed. Childcare costs in Scotland are not only among the highest in the United Kingdom, but are the most variable. The recent Daycare Trust and Children in Scotland report that has been referred to stresses how difficult that is, and that we are at the high end of cost and variability.
It is equally unacceptable that there is not so much flexibility in the system, so there is not enough choice available to parents in how they spend their entitlements. Why do I say that? If it is correct that only a fifth of local authorities have adequate facilities for parents who work full time, that is a serious hindrance. Instead of choice being about when and how to spend entitlements, it becomes about whether to work or have childcare. Naturally, that has serious consequences for some parents, especially lone parents.
It is too often the most disadvantaged children who do not get what they are entitled to. That can put untold pressures on the family budgets of the very poorest families in our society, which is why it is so important that we target early education support and care at those who stand most to benefit.
“Making Work Pay—The Childcare Trap” outlines the problems in the starkest detail. It says that 59 per cent of parents who are living in poverty said that they are no better off working and paying for childcare, compared with only 19 per cent of those with incomes over £30,000; that parents in poverty almost always have to go without buying some essentials to pay for their childcare; and that a quarter of parents in poverty have had to give up work, a third have had to turn down a job and a quarter have not been able to take up education or training because of the difficulties in accessing childcare.
I do not think that anyone could argue that this is not an important time to be discussing the current childcare arrangements, particularly against the backdrop of so many other changes to social and welfare policy. The traditional structure of family life has changed beyond all recognition in recent decades, not least in respect of the fact that far fewer people are working in conventional 9-to-5 jobs. As a result, it is important to ensure that those who work unconventional hours are not disadvantaged.
I am extremely conscious of the extensive criticisms of some aspects of the Westminster Government’s welfare reform, including the child benefit part of the proposals, which I am on record as having expressed reservations about in the chamber. The concerns are sufficient for the coalition to review some of the details, but the principle of universal credit—which is to ensure that people are better off in work than they are on benefits—is the right one. Nonetheless, in conjunction with that, there is a need to reform the childcare entitlement to provide additional support.
I thank the Liberals for bringing the debate to Parliament. Nobody in any political party in Parliament doubts how important the subject is. The evidence is overwhelming about early intervention of whatever sort for the health and social wellbeing and the educational achievement of any child. It is important that we debate the matter and take it extremely seriously.
The Liberal motion rightly points to regional variations in supply and costs of childcare. We agree that that is a very difficult situation that needs to be addressed. Childcare costs in Scotland are not only among the highest in the United Kingdom, but are the most variable. The recent Daycare Trust and Children in Scotland report that has been referred to stresses how difficult that is, and that we are at the high end of cost and variability.
It is equally unacceptable that there is not so much flexibility in the system, so there is not enough choice available to parents in how they spend their entitlements. Why do I say that? If it is correct that only a fifth of local authorities have adequate facilities for parents who work full time, that is a serious hindrance. Instead of choice being about when and how to spend entitlements, it becomes about whether to work or have childcare. Naturally, that has serious consequences for some parents, especially lone parents.
It is too often the most disadvantaged children who do not get what they are entitled to. That can put untold pressures on the family budgets of the very poorest families in our society, which is why it is so important that we target early education support and care at those who stand most to benefit.
“Making Work Pay—The Childcare Trap” outlines the problems in the starkest detail. It says that 59 per cent of parents who are living in poverty said that they are no better off working and paying for childcare, compared with only 19 per cent of those with incomes over £30,000; that parents in poverty almost always have to go without buying some essentials to pay for their childcare; and that a quarter of parents in poverty have had to give up work, a third have had to turn down a job and a quarter have not been able to take up education or training because of the difficulties in accessing childcare.
I do not think that anyone could argue that this is not an important time to be discussing the current childcare arrangements, particularly against the backdrop of so many other changes to social and welfare policy. The traditional structure of family life has changed beyond all recognition in recent decades, not least in respect of the fact that far fewer people are working in conventional 9-to-5 jobs. As a result, it is important to ensure that those who work unconventional hours are not disadvantaged.
I am extremely conscious of the extensive criticisms of some aspects of the Westminster Government’s welfare reform, including the child benefit part of the proposals, which I am on record as having expressed reservations about in the chamber. The concerns are sufficient for the coalition to review some of the details, but the principle of universal credit—which is to ensure that people are better off in work than they are on benefits—is the right one. Nonetheless, in conjunction with that, there is a need to reform the childcare entitlement to provide additional support.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02338, in the name of Liam McArthur, on childcare.09:15
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
As Liberal Democrat education spokesman since last May, I have had the chance to participate in debates that have covered most aspects of how our education s...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Taking all that into consideration, how will the move by Mr McArthur’s party, as part of the UK Government, to withdraw tax credits from 73,300 Scottish fami...
Liam McArthur
LD
I am grateful to Mark McDonald for again coming up with the standard stump speech from Scottish National Party members about things for which they do not hav...
Liam McArthur
LD
I am not sure what message that sends to the authors of the report or to those who are struggling day and daily with the problems that the report clearly ide...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
With all this negativity, will the member not at least try to concede that we should welcome the bold and ambitious target that the First Minister has set fo...
Liam McArthur
LD
I am being accused of negativity by an SNP minister. Now, there’s a thing.If we are to answer the First Minister’s plea for this united front to be successfu...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I accept that there are issues for the Scottish Government to look at in the forthcoming legislation, including Liam McArthur’s suggestions about what is hap...
Liam McArthur
LD
I am well aware of the concern that Mr Chisholm reiterates. However, the £300 million that has been invested in the childcare support element of universal cr...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
I am proud to open the debate for the Government, because it comes after the First Minister’s hugely important announcement on childcare at the weekend. The ...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Given the commitments that were made in 2007, and to which Mr McArthur referred, why has it taken so long to get to this stage? When will the Government’s pa...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
We are committed to making improvements to the life chances of children across Scotland and to introducing potential legislation next year. We will work with...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Would the minister be interested to hear that, at the Welfare Reform Committee meeting the other day, not one of the groups that represented civic Scotland h...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Annabelle Ewing raises a very good point, to which Liam McArthur should pay close attention.We have committed to increasing early learning and childcare prov...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Liam McArthur for introducing the debate, and pay tribute to childcare providers in Scotland, such as North Edinburgh Childcare, which I visited last...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Will Neil Bibby welcome the commitment that the First Minister made at the weekend to 600 hours of free early education and childcare?
Neil Bibby
Lab
I thank the minister for raising that issue, to which I will come shortly.Parents in Scotland are being hit by a double whammy. They are, first, being hit by...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
I remind Neil Bibby of my announcement about engaging with the third sector to identify gaps. Will he welcome that move, if not the 600 hours?
Neil Bibby
Lab
Absolutely, I will. As I said, we need to engage with children’s charities and national organisations, so of course we welcome that.We need a model in which ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Liz Smith.09:39
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Gavin Brown
Con
Presiding Officer.
Liz Smith
Con
I apologise, Presiding Officer.I thank the Liberals for bringing the debate to Parliament. Nobody in any political party in Parliament doubts how important t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
Liz Smith uses the phrase that the solution “is the right one”. Can she equate that with the report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies that shows that the...
Liz Smith
Con
What is right is the principle that it is better to be in work than on benefits. I fully accept that the coalition needs to revise details of its policy and ...
Margaret Burgess (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
I think that we all agree that supporting children in their earliest years gives them opportunities for learning and development that make a huge difference ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
Does Margaret Burgess accept that the extra £300 million that we are putting in through universal credit for childcare support is a positive thing?
Margaret Burgess
SNP
What I accept is that through the Con-Dem Government people have lost out. Last year in North Ayrshire, 1,200 families lost an average of £450 a year. Incide...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Today’s debate is timely. We have spent a lot of time talking about the impact on families, but I believe that the debate is clearly about the economy: it is...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
It takes a brass neck for the Lib Dems to come to the chamber to complain about the affordability of childcare while they vote in coalition with the Tories a...