Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 May 2012
16 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Library of Scotland Bill
Scottish Labour, too, welcomes the bill and recognises that reform of the structures that support our National Library is necessary. The fact that the existing legislation has served for 87 years is testament to it, and I very much hope that the legislation that is before us today will prove to be equally durable.
We have been happy to be involved in the discussions on the form that the reforms should take, and we are largely pleased with the outcome. I know that Parliament as a whole recognises the need for change. I congratulate the Education and Culture Committee and its convener and clerks on their work in scrutinising the bill, and the cabinet secretary on being amenable to discussion with the committee about the way forward.
I congratulate the staff and the current board of the National Library—especially its outgoing chair—on their hard work and on the care that they take of one of our most precious assets on a daily basis. The Faculty of Advocates should also be praised for its co-operation, both at this time of change and in the past.
In the stage 1 debate, many members expressed reservations about specific elements of the bill, and many of those have been addressed. The size of the board exercised members, and I am pleased that the cabinet secretary has taken steps to allay those concerns and to ensure that the board is small enough to avoid being cumbersome and slow to act, but big enough to reflect the wide range of interests and expertise that we need if the National Library is to continue to be well managed.
I am pleased that some of the existing members will remain on the board to aid the process of transition. That is a sensible move, which will allow the transition period to be as smooth as possible.
At stage 2, the minister sought to clarify the issue of collaboration. It is right that the bill, as it is now amended, reflects the National Library’s role as an active collaborator rather than just as a facilitator of collaboration by others.
The National Library is also often an exemplar of good practice and works with the other national collections, as well as with libraries and librarians, but a ministerial power is not necessary to make that happen—that is the core of the National Library’s work. I think that it is going a step too far to include such a provision.
As I mentioned, the act that underpins the structure of the NLS is 87 years old. Although it has served us well in the past, the future is likely to see changes in the ways in which information and data are exchanged and stored. As we probably cannot yet envisage the nature of those changes or the rate at which they will happen, it is good that consideration has been given to how the bill can be future proofed to accommodate such changes, as well as advances that we can anticipate, such as the imminent regulations for legal deposit libraries.
At stage 1, Scottish Labour made it clear that we would like the cabinet secretary to reconsider the ministerial power of direction. We are pleased that she has done so to some extent, but we had hoped that, following the completion of stage 2, she might have gone a little further and lodged a stage 3 amendment that would have prevented the chamber from dividing on the matter. Unfortunately, that did not happen and we felt compelled to back Liam McArthur’s stage 3 amendments. I am genuinely sorry that the Scottish Government could not see its way clear to making such a concession and that we had to divide on an issue on which the cabinet secretary knew well the views of many members and stakeholders.
As a matter of record, I say to Stewart Maxwell that the previous Administration did not seek any kind of intervention into artistic matters. In any case, we would have removed the relevant provision entirely, because we took the consultation that we did on our proposed culture legislation very seriously and we would not have pursued that element. However, we are where we are.
I have rehearsed on previous occasions my real interest in the work of the National Library of Scotland and the impact that I know that it has on Scotland’s culture. I look forward greatly to watching it grow under its new governance arrangements, and to continuing to be surprised, educated and enthralled by its collections and its exhibitions for years to come. I wish it well in its new format.
16:52
We have been happy to be involved in the discussions on the form that the reforms should take, and we are largely pleased with the outcome. I know that Parliament as a whole recognises the need for change. I congratulate the Education and Culture Committee and its convener and clerks on their work in scrutinising the bill, and the cabinet secretary on being amenable to discussion with the committee about the way forward.
I congratulate the staff and the current board of the National Library—especially its outgoing chair—on their hard work and on the care that they take of one of our most precious assets on a daily basis. The Faculty of Advocates should also be praised for its co-operation, both at this time of change and in the past.
In the stage 1 debate, many members expressed reservations about specific elements of the bill, and many of those have been addressed. The size of the board exercised members, and I am pleased that the cabinet secretary has taken steps to allay those concerns and to ensure that the board is small enough to avoid being cumbersome and slow to act, but big enough to reflect the wide range of interests and expertise that we need if the National Library is to continue to be well managed.
I am pleased that some of the existing members will remain on the board to aid the process of transition. That is a sensible move, which will allow the transition period to be as smooth as possible.
At stage 2, the minister sought to clarify the issue of collaboration. It is right that the bill, as it is now amended, reflects the National Library’s role as an active collaborator rather than just as a facilitator of collaboration by others.
The National Library is also often an exemplar of good practice and works with the other national collections, as well as with libraries and librarians, but a ministerial power is not necessary to make that happen—that is the core of the National Library’s work. I think that it is going a step too far to include such a provision.
As I mentioned, the act that underpins the structure of the NLS is 87 years old. Although it has served us well in the past, the future is likely to see changes in the ways in which information and data are exchanged and stored. As we probably cannot yet envisage the nature of those changes or the rate at which they will happen, it is good that consideration has been given to how the bill can be future proofed to accommodate such changes, as well as advances that we can anticipate, such as the imminent regulations for legal deposit libraries.
At stage 1, Scottish Labour made it clear that we would like the cabinet secretary to reconsider the ministerial power of direction. We are pleased that she has done so to some extent, but we had hoped that, following the completion of stage 2, she might have gone a little further and lodged a stage 3 amendment that would have prevented the chamber from dividing on the matter. Unfortunately, that did not happen and we felt compelled to back Liam McArthur’s stage 3 amendments. I am genuinely sorry that the Scottish Government could not see its way clear to making such a concession and that we had to divide on an issue on which the cabinet secretary knew well the views of many members and stakeholders.
As a matter of record, I say to Stewart Maxwell that the previous Administration did not seek any kind of intervention into artistic matters. In any case, we would have removed the relevant provision entirely, because we took the consultation that we did on our proposed culture legislation very seriously and we would not have pursued that element. However, we are where we are.
I have rehearsed on previous occasions my real interest in the work of the National Library of Scotland and the impact that I know that it has on Scotland’s culture. I look forward greatly to watching it grow under its new governance arrangements, and to continuing to be surprised, educated and enthralled by its collections and its exhibitions for years to come. I wish it well in its new format.
16:52
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02878, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the National Library of Scotland Bill.16:05
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I thank members of the Education and Culture Committee for their scrutiny of the National Library of Scotland Bill. Throughout the process, members have prov...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I call Neil Findlay. You have up to seven minutes. Any time that you can save will be gratefully received. 16:15
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
In this era of huge change in information technology, with digital books, online resources, web-based learning, audio books and digital film, the role of mod...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I add my thanks to those of Neil Findlay to Stewart Maxwell and the clerks. Stewart Maxwell has convened the committee with his normal sense of humour, and w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We now move to the open debate. I regret to tell members that we are short of time, so if they can confine themselves to three-minute speeches, it would be m...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I thank members for their kind comments about my convenership of the Education and Culture Committee throughout the bill’s passage. I thank in particular the...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Over the past couple of centuries, libraries have evolved to become important institutions at the heart of communities across Scotland and the United Kingdom...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
The bill that is being passed today marks a new era for the National Library of Scotland, bringing its governance into the 21st century and freeing it to con...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
When I read the bill as introduced, I had genuine doubt as to the status in law of the proposed new entity. The existing governance was clear: there was a st...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the Government’s acceptance of an increase in the minimum board size, on which I commented at stage 1.I do not understand the positions of the othe...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I endorse Fiona McLeod’s concluding comments.We have finally managed to get Marco Biagi off the NLS board in order that he can spend more time with his famil...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I offer my congratulations to Orkney library and archive, too.16:44
Liz Smith
Con
The debate has been largely consensual, out of a need to ensure that we maintain and enhance one of Scotland’s great national treasures for exactly the reaso...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
Scottish Labour, too, welcomes the bill and recognises that reform of the structures that support our National Library is necessary. The fact that the existi...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I welcome the tone of the debate and the genuine respect that members across the chamber have expressed for the work of the National Library of Scotland.In r...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
There is far too much noise in the chamber. I ask members to settle down.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
When I met other culture ministers in Brussels last week, I heard some fascinating insights from Professor Nigel Shadbolt of the University of Southampton ab...