Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2011
16 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Government Finance (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 2011
We will come to that, Mr Brownlee.
The other point that puzzles me—Mr McMahon mentioned this too—is that, although the SNP Government staunchly defends the council tax freeze, it does not use the same arguments when it comes to increases in council house rents or housing association rents. The Scottish Government claims that the council tax freeze is to protect the poor and the vulnerable. Although the poorest in social housing will receive housing benefit, just as the poorest paying council tax receive council tax benefit, it is the people who are just above the housing benefit line who will suffer the most. They can least afford the higher rents—and, in fact, higher rents may affect their ability to work. Despite that, the silence on rent increases from this Government—in particular from Joe Fitzpatrick when he was asked—is deafening.
I understand why local authorities have signed up to the council tax freeze—not to do so would cost them dear. However, I am surprised that alarm bells have not been ringing for the cabinet secretary, given that his biggest supporters are the Conservatives. Perhaps that reveals a truth that the SNP would rather not admit to. I fear that Mr Swinney has been more concerned about grabbing a council tax freeze headline, rather than considering how he can best support local services for people in Scotland.
17:20
The other point that puzzles me—Mr McMahon mentioned this too—is that, although the SNP Government staunchly defends the council tax freeze, it does not use the same arguments when it comes to increases in council house rents or housing association rents. The Scottish Government claims that the council tax freeze is to protect the poor and the vulnerable. Although the poorest in social housing will receive housing benefit, just as the poorest paying council tax receive council tax benefit, it is the people who are just above the housing benefit line who will suffer the most. They can least afford the higher rents—and, in fact, higher rents may affect their ability to work. Despite that, the silence on rent increases from this Government—in particular from Joe Fitzpatrick when he was asked—is deafening.
I understand why local authorities have signed up to the council tax freeze—not to do so would cost them dear. However, I am surprised that alarm bells have not been ringing for the cabinet secretary, given that his biggest supporters are the Conservatives. Perhaps that reveals a truth that the SNP would rather not admit to. I fear that Mr Swinney has been more concerned about grabbing a council tax freeze headline, rather than considering how he can best support local services for people in Scotland.
17:20
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motions S3M-8130 and S3M-8140, in the name of John Swinney, on the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Amendment Ord...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
On 10 February, Parliament approved the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2011, which enabled Scotland’s local authorities to set next year’s revenue...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
LD
Is the cabinet secretary very pleased by how that £700 million has been distributed between the wealthiest people living in the biggest houses and the poores...
John Swinney
SNP
It is clear that the council tax freeze has provided welcome assistance to people who are facing severe financial challenges. For example, since 2007-08, the...
Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab)
Lab
When we previously debated a local government finance order, on 10 February, local authorities throughout the country were in the throes of putting together ...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)
SNP
I am curious and slightly stuck for words. Can the member tell me whether or not the Labour Party supports the council tax freeze? The proposals that have be...
Michael McMahon
Lab
Mr FitzPatrick should have stayed stuck for words. We have made it absolutely clear that we have always objected to the underfunding of the council tax freez...
Derek Brownlee (South of Scotland) (Con)
Con
That is a terrifying prospect.Given that we vote in the budget debate in February, I always wondered why we regularly come back to consider such orders. I ap...
Michael McMahon
Lab
Does the member recognise that, in the interim, we have had a recession and the council tax freeze? Does he accept that the landscape of local government has...
Derek Brownlee
Con
I am glad that someone on the Labour benches has finally admitted that the recession happened on that party’s watch, because Labour members have been keen to...
Michael McMahon
Lab
It is underfunded.
Derek Brownlee
Con
Oh—it is underfunded, which I presume is why, in 2009, Mr McMahon said:“The SNP Government is ripping off local councils by £270 million.”Are we to take it t...
Jeremy Purvis
LD
When the evolving debates began, I think that the Conservative policy was to halve the council tax for all pensioners. For the record, and so that I understa...
Derek Brownlee
Con
If I remember correctly, the Liberal Democrats were committed to a local income tax, but Ross Finnie has said that they would not introduce it in the next fi...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
LD
We will not block the council tax freeze and we will vote in the same way as we have done on previous local government finance orders. We register our concer...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)
SNP
The orders will put in place the last piece of council funding for 2011-12, which will ensure that council tax is frozen across Scotland for a fourth consecu...
Michael McMahon
Lab
Some people might benefit from the freeze, but is Joe FitzPatrick concerned about people who rent small band A and band B houses from their councils and whos...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I had intended to congratulate the Labour Party on doing one of the most fantastic U-turns to support the council tax freeze, but I am sorry—Labour members c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I need to stop the member there, I am afraid.17:16
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to be able to take part in today’s debate. Everyone in Scotland is affected by local authorities’ ability to deliver quality local services, so ...
Derek Brownlee
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Mary Mulligan
Lab
Let me make this point first.To understand the pressure that local authorities are under, we need only consider the kind of cuts that they are having to intr...
Derek Brownlee
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Mary Mulligan
Lab
I will finish these examples and then let Mr Brownlee in.The council increased those charges by between 28 and 44 per cent. The cost of a half-day visit will...
Derek Brownlee
Con
The member made a point about the council tax freeze having been underfunded consistently since its introduction, and the Labour Party is committed not only ...
Mary Mulligan
Lab
We will come to that, Mr Brownlee.The other point that puzzles me—Mr McMahon mentioned this too—is that, although the SNP Government staunchly defends the co...
John Swinney
SNP
Mr Purvis made a point about a £700 million revenue shortfall, which could have been spent in other ways. I simply point out to Mr Purvis that, in the budget...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Order. We need to have fewer conversations in the chamber, please.
John Swinney
SNP
I wonder where Mrs Mulligan was the day when it was carefully considered at the policy forum of the Labour Party to undertake that spectacular U-turn.That br...
Michael McMahon
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?