Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2011
16 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill
Instances of domestic abuse in Scotland remain stubbornly—indeed, disgracefully—high. There were 51,926 incidents of domestic abuse in the last recorded year, which is unacceptable. Those incidents happened despite the best efforts of everyone concerned over the past 12 years. It is clear that, if there is a gap or lacuna in the protection that is being offered to the victims of such abuse, it is incumbent on us to attempt to fill it, and that is what Rhoda Grant’s bill seeks to do.
Someone—I forget who it was—once described politics as being
“the art of the possible”.
Ms Grant seems to be an adherent of that view. There were one or two difficulties that she managed to overcome in a straightforward manner as she sought to get through a worthwhile bill, which reflects highly on her. She recognised the difficulties that undoubtedly could have arisen.
A number of us were considerably troubled by the legal aid aspect. There were the complexities of European involvement and the old equality-of-arms argument, which we have heard under many different headings. Rhoda Grant recognised that there would be a difficulty, but she proceeded in a fairly forthright and determined manner to ensure that, as far as possible, someone’s financial situation should not be an impediment to their seeking a remedy. On the basis of the undertaking that has been received from the Scottish Legal Aid Board, that has, of course, turned out to be the case.
The second difficulty was the problem of definition, to which I applied my mind without coming up with the answer. I am not totally convinced that we have resolved that difficulty. The record will certainly show that the minister’s views on it have been quite clear, and if there is a difficulty with regard to judicial interpretation somewhere down the road, his statement on the record will be very helpful.
As I said, domestic abuse is a serious issue. We can claim some success with it over the years—there has been a 4 per cent fall in the instances of such abuse—but the situation remains completely unacceptable by any standard. I do not think that what we are seeking to do today will be a complete remedy; that will be achieved only when there is an attitudinal change in people in Scotland, particularly young people. I find it rather depressing, to say the least, that many see as acceptable the type of conduct that we have spent a great deal of time trying to deal with in the Parliament over the years, including by trying to offer appropriate protection to victims. It is not acceptable. That is a pure and simple fact, and it has to be generally understood.
I congratulate Rhoda Grant, who has, I know, worked hard. She has spent a lot of time and effort to achieve what will, I am sure, be a satisfactory result, and she has helped to move the Parliament and Scotland further down the road of ensuring that adequate protection is in place for victims of domestic abuse offences.
15:44
Someone—I forget who it was—once described politics as being
“the art of the possible”.
Ms Grant seems to be an adherent of that view. There were one or two difficulties that she managed to overcome in a straightforward manner as she sought to get through a worthwhile bill, which reflects highly on her. She recognised the difficulties that undoubtedly could have arisen.
A number of us were considerably troubled by the legal aid aspect. There were the complexities of European involvement and the old equality-of-arms argument, which we have heard under many different headings. Rhoda Grant recognised that there would be a difficulty, but she proceeded in a fairly forthright and determined manner to ensure that, as far as possible, someone’s financial situation should not be an impediment to their seeking a remedy. On the basis of the undertaking that has been received from the Scottish Legal Aid Board, that has, of course, turned out to be the case.
The second difficulty was the problem of definition, to which I applied my mind without coming up with the answer. I am not totally convinced that we have resolved that difficulty. The record will certainly show that the minister’s views on it have been quite clear, and if there is a difficulty with regard to judicial interpretation somewhere down the road, his statement on the record will be very helpful.
As I said, domestic abuse is a serious issue. We can claim some success with it over the years—there has been a 4 per cent fall in the instances of such abuse—but the situation remains completely unacceptable by any standard. I do not think that what we are seeking to do today will be a complete remedy; that will be achieved only when there is an attitudinal change in people in Scotland, particularly young people. I find it rather depressing, to say the least, that many see as acceptable the type of conduct that we have spent a great deal of time trying to deal with in the Parliament over the years, including by trying to offer appropriate protection to victims. It is not acceptable. That is a pure and simple fact, and it has to be generally understood.
I congratulate Rhoda Grant, who has, I know, worked hard. She has spent a lot of time and effort to achieve what will, I am sure, be a satisfactory result, and she has helped to move the Parliament and Scotland further down the road of ensuring that adequate protection is in place for victims of domestic abuse offences.
15:44
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8136, in the name of Rhoda Grant, on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. I repeat that we are very tight ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
It gives me great pleasure to open the debate. The bill has taken a long time to bring forward, and there were times when I thought that we would never get h...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to outline the Government’s approach to the bill.In one unfortunate respect, the bill is timely, in that the incidence of d...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I join all those who have commended Rhoda Grant for bringing before Parliament this important legislation to tackle domestic abuse. She can be proud of her w...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Instances of domestic abuse in Scotland remain stubbornly—indeed, disgracefully—high. There were 51,926 incidents of domestic abuse in the last recorded year...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
The bill addresses a serious matter to which the Parliament has devoted quite a bit of attention over the years since 1999 and which calls for serious politi...
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I begin where Robert Brown left off by saying how much I admire the work that Rhoda Grant has undertaken on the bill. It is not easy to take through any memb...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to support the motion in the name of my Labour colleague Rhoda Grant. I offer her my unreserved congratulations on bringing to the ...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I congratulate Bill Butler on that exposition of what Parliament is about, with which of course I entirely concur. I also congratulate Rhoda Grant on introdu...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD)
LD
Like all other members who have spoken in the debate this afternoon, I congratulate Rhoda Grant on getting the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill through to stag...
Bill Aitken
Con
I thank Mike Pringle for his kind remarks, which I appreciated.I hope that when the bill is passed, Rhoda Grant does not feel that because of what happened t...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, congratulate Rhoda Grant on what I am sure will be the passing of the bill later this afternoon. As Mike Pringle said, navigating a member’s bill thr...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Maureen Macmillan was referred to earlier in proceedings, and I am delighted to see that she is in the public gallery witnessing the debate. I recall from st...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I thank all members who took part in the debate for their kind words—in fact, their words were so kind that when Roseanna Cunningham came into the chamber sh...