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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2011

16 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Certification of Death (Scotland) Bill
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV
I am very pleased that we have reached stage 3 of the bill and that its consideration is coming to an end. I tend to disagree with Ian McKee, in that I think that the bill is very technical, but I agree that it is incredibly important.

As was said at stage 2 and again today, the Shipman inquiry led to the bill and our work on it to see how it would affect the issues raised. It was acknowledged early in the process that it would be impossible to stop another Shipman, but the bill might act as a deterrent. I hope that it will also lead to better recording of the reasons for death.

I have a number of points on the pilots and implementation, and I make no apology for repeating much of what I said in the stage 1 debate. When I raised issues to do with the collection of fees by registrars and asked what would happen if a death were registered by a police officer or a neighbour, the minister said that she hoped that she could send out a reassuring message on that but, rather than reassurance, we need a clear solution. I ask her to bring forward such a solution, which should be available not only to people such as police officers, who might be asked to register a death, but to the likes of neighbours and friends of the deceased, who might wish to help a bereaved family in that way.

I welcomed the minister’s assurance in the stage 1 debate that non-payment of the fee would not delay certification, but clear guidance must be provided so that registrars know what to do in the process.

Another issue that I raised in the stage 1 debate was that of the delay that might be caused by a death being reviewed, which could be extremely distressing for cultural and religious reasons. The minister said that she would look at having test sites to see how the policy would work, and she suggested Glasgow as a possible test site for dealing with issues regarding faith groups. I welcome that commitment, but I ask that another of the test sites be in one of our island authority areas, where the local culture is that the body would normally remain at home prior to the funeral. That would enable us to look into how the operational issues could be dealt with in those areas.

Given the timing of the bill and of the setting up of the pilots, it might not be possible to test the proposed system in the winter months, so I ask the minister to ensure that the people who work in the test site areas look at the implications of poor weather and possible transport disruption. Last weekend, I had an interesting experience travelling to Shetland, which took quite a while longer than I expected and included an overnight stay in Kirkwall in Orkney, as well as a visit to Aberdeen. That is frustrating enough for people who have plans, but it could be extremely distressing for a bereaved family that was waiting for a medical examiner to pitch up, as it could delay the making of funeral arrangements.

The possibility of such delays might lead to a requirement for refrigerated mortuaries on our islands and in our remote communities, and that would come with an additional cost. Winter conditions are challenging for obvious reasons, but ferries and planes can also be affected during the summer months, when it can be difficult to get on and off islands because of tourist travel. In that period, it is often difficult to book a ferry or a plane ticket.

We must ensure that the policy works in practice, otherwise it will lead to distress and possibly to additional costs for authorities that attempt to implement the bill. We must also ensure that our remote, rural and island communities receive a service and safeguards that are equivalent to those that more urban areas receive. A process needs to be put in place that will deal with all those issues and deliver the same protection for all our communities.

The bill is technical, but it is important nonetheless, and we need to ensure that the system that it puts in place is right so that we can protect the people whom we seek to serve.

11:03

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8126, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Certification of Death (Scotland) Bill.10:32
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
We are debating a bill that will provide us with a proportionate and robust approach to the scrutiny of death certification. The proposals will lead to a mod...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I would like to add to the minister’s thanks by thanking the witnesses who appeared before the committee. They were extremely helpful. In the Scottish Parlia...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP) SNP
Committees have that effect.
Dr Simpson Lab
Yes. Thank you, Stewart—I have lost my train of thought now.In the case of a sudden death where we did not know a lot about the patient and we did not have a...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I thank the witnesses, in particular Professor Stewart Fleming and Ishbel Gall, who scrutinised the bill effectively at all stages.I am pleased that we have ...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD) LD
The bill was interesting. When it first came before the Health and Sport Committee, there was a sense that it was a relatively simple matter and that it woul...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP) SNP
There is some belief that the bill is a dull affair and that it is just rather technical. However, information from death certification can have a major effe...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I am very pleased that we have reached stage 3 of the bill and that its consideration is coming to an end. I tend to disagree with Ian McKee, in that I think...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP) SNP
I have a few observations to make, some of which pick up points that others have made and some of which are new. Dr Ian McKee talked about the importance of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That would be a sensible idea.
Stewart Stevenson SNP
In that case, I will close. Clive James’s autobiography contains the wonderful phrase,“Don’t take life seriously; you won’t get out of it alive anyway.”Today...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD) LD
As I am not a member of the Health and Sport Committee, I come to the bill and the debate as a comparative layman. However, I am struck by a central theme th...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Does the member accept that it is not possible to eliminate all doubt from death? I say that having been close to a suicide. To this day, more than a decade ...
Jamie Stone LD
I accept that, but the point of raising Kevin McLeod’s death was to highlight a case in which the element of doubt is unacceptably high. In a proper democrac...
Mary Scanlon Con
Despite Stewart Stevenson’s incredible experience in business, innovation and enterprise throughout Scotland, he seems to think that modern technology is inc...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I agree with every word that Mary Scanlon has said; I merely sound a note of caution that it is sometimes more difficult than people imagine to achieve that ...
Mary Scanlon Con
I appreciate that, but I am sure that people around Scotland like Stewart Stevenson, working in an advisory capacity, can keep everyone right.My second point...
Dr Simpson Lab
The bill began rather like the Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill, looking rather flawed and weary, but it has been resurrected through the useful process that w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Wind up, please.
Dr Simpson Lab
We have a better bill now, although it still needs to be reviewed and we will examine the pilots as they go through. I support the passing of the bill.11:23
Shona Robison SNP
The debate has shown that, although there are still differences of opinion on some matters, the Parliament has engaged positively with the bill and has raise...
Mary Scanlon Con
I am trying to clarify two things. We all know that the cause of death is listed, but I have seen death certificates on which the major contributory factor i...
Shona Robison SNP
There is a difference between that and a list of every condition, as I am sure we agree.Ross Finnie made a number of points and I am pleased that he found th...