Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 02 February 2011
02 Feb 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It seems almost no time since I stood up for my opening speech. Unfortunately, this is a very limited debate. I would have welcomed having much more time for it, because it is clear from the speeches that we have heard that people have an interest in the subject, as is only right.
Several members have made the valid point—perhaps I did not make it as clearly as they did—that the difference between an arranged marriage and a forced marriage must be recognised, and that must be followed through in how we engage with communities. We must ensure that they understand such things and that people know what the law is. Sandra White referred to Bashir Ahmad, who spoke eloquently and frequently about that issue, including to me. His contribution in that regard as a person from one of Scotland’s ethnic minority communities was valid, important and significant.
I am not sure where we will get the resources to ensure that, alongside the bill in its final form, the necessary educational framework will be provided. There is concern, which others have voiced, that if we use the legislation as a bolt-on to the responsibilities of women’s aid groups, we will further stretch their resources to do the work that we expect them to do. I hope that, in his winding-up speech, the minister will clarify how things may work, where the targeting will be and how the targeting will be achieved to ensure that people in public agencies, the voluntary sector and community groups are given the information that they need—whether in English or other languages—to make sure that the wider community understands what is going on. A little bit of resource will be needed. I am interested to hear from the minister how resources will be allocated and used, what guidance will be given, what suggestions will be made, and what consultation will take place. Any legislation can be put on to the statute book, but if people do not know that it is there for their protection, they will not use it. It is important that we have a framework or strategy to address those issues as we progress matters.
Marlyn Glen raised the issue of duress. Definitional challenges have been posed, and I agree that there must be some way of overcoming them, but duress takes place in many ways, shapes and forms, of course. I support her view on the issue of what we might call a sunset clause for protection orders. For people who have a learning disability, it might not be appropriate to have a time limit. We might need a case-by-case approach so that each individual case is reviewed over a given period. I would welcome the minister’s response on that, either during his summation or during further discussions with the committee.
I get the sense that we all support the bill at stage 1. Certainly, the Liberal Democrats will support the bill at decision time.
15:20
Several members have made the valid point—perhaps I did not make it as clearly as they did—that the difference between an arranged marriage and a forced marriage must be recognised, and that must be followed through in how we engage with communities. We must ensure that they understand such things and that people know what the law is. Sandra White referred to Bashir Ahmad, who spoke eloquently and frequently about that issue, including to me. His contribution in that regard as a person from one of Scotland’s ethnic minority communities was valid, important and significant.
I am not sure where we will get the resources to ensure that, alongside the bill in its final form, the necessary educational framework will be provided. There is concern, which others have voiced, that if we use the legislation as a bolt-on to the responsibilities of women’s aid groups, we will further stretch their resources to do the work that we expect them to do. I hope that, in his winding-up speech, the minister will clarify how things may work, where the targeting will be and how the targeting will be achieved to ensure that people in public agencies, the voluntary sector and community groups are given the information that they need—whether in English or other languages—to make sure that the wider community understands what is going on. A little bit of resource will be needed. I am interested to hear from the minister how resources will be allocated and used, what guidance will be given, what suggestions will be made, and what consultation will take place. Any legislation can be put on to the statute book, but if people do not know that it is there for their protection, they will not use it. It is important that we have a framework or strategy to address those issues as we progress matters.
Marlyn Glen raised the issue of duress. Definitional challenges have been posed, and I agree that there must be some way of overcoming them, but duress takes place in many ways, shapes and forms, of course. I support her view on the issue of what we might call a sunset clause for protection orders. For people who have a learning disability, it might not be appropriate to have a time limit. We might need a case-by-case approach so that each individual case is reviewed over a given period. I would welcome the minister’s response on that, either during his summation or during further discussions with the committee.
I get the sense that we all support the bill at stage 1. Certainly, the Liberal Democrats will support the bill at decision time.
15:20
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7820, in the name of Alex Neil, on the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill....
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil)
SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 1 debate on the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill, which henceforth I shall refer to as the bi...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
The Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill is important legislation. The Equal Opportunities Committee having been designated as t...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to take part in today’s debate on the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill. I have read the Equal Opportunities Com...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
The committee’s report, for which I thank the convener, is fairly comprehensive. It is unable to evidence a substantial number of cases; however, although th...
Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD)
LD
The Scottish Liberal Democrats are happy to support the bill at stage 1. However, wearing two hats, as I am also a member of the Justice Committee, I support...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
Does the member agree that we must be very clear that forced marriage is not cultural, but is firmly viewed as abuse?
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
I have no argument with that at all. I recognise fully that forced marriage in any form, whether it involves physical, psychological or other duress—or indee...
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
It is incumbent on us all when we talk about forced marriage to keep making the point that it bears absolutely no relation to arranged marriage. We in the ch...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to support the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill. I believe that it has successfully addressed the problems that...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Mary Mulligan for her positive response. It has been noted. I also pay tribute to my colleague Bashir Ahmad, who felt strongly about the issue—I thin...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased that the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill has at last come before Parliament, thereby allowing us to catch up w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman)
Lab
We move to the winding-up speeches. Hugh O’Donnell has a tight four minutes.15:16
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
It seems almost no time since I stood up for my opening speech. Unfortunately, this is a very limited debate. I would have welcomed having much more time for...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
As members have said, we are clear that there is a key and fundamental distinction between forced marriages, in which one or both people are forced to marry ...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
Consensus seems to have broken out in the chamber this afternoon in what has been a regrettably short debate on an important subject. I agree with my colleag...
Alex Neil
SNP
Although this has been a short debate, it has been a high-quality one and there is a great deal of consensus around the chamber.As Sandra White did, I pay tr...
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
Will victims automatically appear on the vulnerable persons database, which the police manage, and will that be flagged up through partnership agencies that ...
Alex Neil
SNP
I imagine that that will normally be the case, but there are situations in which the police have discretion to decide what appears on the database. I do not ...