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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 October 2011

27 Oct 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scots Criminal Law (Integrity)
McInnes, Alison LD North East Scotland Watch on SPTV
I, too, welcome the opportunity to debate the review group’s report and set it in the context of the wider debate. I find it interesting that, after the Government’s refusal for so long to engage with the Scotland Bill process, it is now taking to scheduling debates in the Parliament in the hope of encouraging ever more amendments to it.

It is difficult to know where to begin with the Government’s motion. I am drawn immediately to the reference to

“restoring the High Court to its rightful place at the apex of”

the Scottish legal system. I agree that the High Court should remain as the final court of appeal in Scottish criminal cases, but the key word is “remain”. I do not believe that its position has ever been in doubt. There are certainly some issues about the precise way in which our legal system interacts with the Supreme Court and it is right that that relationship should be clarified. I will touch on those issues in a moment, but first I must again thank Lord McCluskey and his group for their work on the report. Hearing additional viewpoints to inform the debate is always helpful. However, I must repeat two points that I made in our debate on the initial report in June.

First, let us remember that the report was commissioned by the Government as an attempt to justify its intemperate comments towards the Supreme Court on the back of the Nat Fraser ruling. That the report has singularly failed to endorse the Government’s call that the Supreme Court should play no role in Scotland should serve as a reminder to both Kenny MacAskill and Alex Salmond that they ought to think a little before they shout. Secondly, I am still unsure why we seem to be giving the report the same weight and significance as the report of the Advocate General’s expert group, which was put together over many months on the back of evidence taking and discussions with a wide range of experts and interested parties.

That said, Lord McCluskey’s report raises a number of relevant issues. I am particularly interested in his recommendation that we widen the scope for referrals to the Supreme Court beyond the acts or omissions of the Lord Advocate and that appeal to the Supreme Court be open, regardless of which public authority is alleged to have violated a person’s convention rights. If a practical way can be found to incorporate such a change, the move seems eminently sensible. The Lord Advocate is not the sole point of contact for ensuring that accused people’s convention rights are protected and I hope that we can consider and discuss this issue further as the Scotland Bill progresses. I was interested to hear Kenny MacAskill support such a change earlier this afternoon. I am also content with the report’s recommendation that the Supreme Court remit cases in which it has found a convention breach right back to the High Court for it to determine the appropriate disposal.

However, I cannot agree with Lord McCluskey’s recommendation on certification. I recognise that this tricky issue merits debate but, so far, there have been inconsistencies in comparisons. It has been mentioned more than once that a system of certification already exists in England and Wales and Northern Ireland but, as members of the Advocate General’s expert group made clear in response to Lord McCluskey’s group, any such comparison is flawed because, in those jurisdictions, the Supreme Court is the final court of appeal for all aspects of criminal law. Of course, that is not the case in Scotland.

The Advocate General’s group also noted the many exceptions to the certification system that are in place in the rest of the UK.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01133, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on ensuring the integrity of Scots criminal law.14:59
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
Scotland has a unique legal tradition that is many centuries old and proudly independent. The existence of distinctive Scots law predates the treaty of union...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Does the cabinet secretary think that the public might prefer him not to go on in great detail about the issue but instead address the key issue for the just...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
I would have hoped that, on a matter of huge constitutional importance that is fundamental to the integrity of Scots criminal law, the member’s intervention ...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon’s debate. I thank Lord McCluskey and his colleagues for the work that they have done in producing no...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Does the member recognise that the Lord President’s letter says:“the High Court should be brought into line with the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) and ...
James Kelly Lab
If Mr MacAskill looks back at the submissions to the expert group that Lord Wallace established, he will see that only two submissions supported the route th...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity for members to look in detail at the final report by Lord McCluskey’s review group. We had an informative debate on the inter...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I, too, welcome the opportunity to debate the review group’s report and set it in the context of the wider debate. I find it interesting that, after the Gove...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
The member seems to be suggesting that, south of the border, the UK Supreme Court is the final court of appeal on criminal matters. Given that it is accepted...
Alison McInnes LD
I do not agree. The reason for having certification south of the border is the vast number of cases that might appear in the Supreme Court. The number of suc...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I declare an interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates.I welcome the findings of Lord McCluskey’s further report as part of the on-going debate about ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
I have a wee bit of time in hand for interventions.15:40
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
The debate is about Scots law, not about any other system. It is about respect for the unique features of Scots law.When the UK Supreme Court commenced opera...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
It is hard to conclude that the Scottish Government is, as John Finnie suggested, outward looking on the issue that we are discussing, because everything tha...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Hugh Henry Lab
Certainly.
Annabelle Ewing SNP
I thank the member for giving way. It is interesting to hear about his research into the definitions of various words but it would be quite helpful if he cou...
Hugh Henry Lab
Other members in my group have outlined their specific points on that, but we must take notice of the general context. Earlier this year intemperate and disg...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
Obviously, I did not think things out too well when I sat down for this debate next to an advocate. However, I hope that I can show some good old-fashioned c...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
George Adam SNP
Against my better judgment, I will.
David McLetchie Con
Is the member aware that the High Court got the Donoghue v Stevenson decision wrong in a sense? It was actually the House of Lords that established the princ...
George Adam SNP
As I said, the cases that I have been discussing are civil, not criminal.The public believes and the cabinet secretary is correct to say that the distinctive...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I remind members that we have a wee bit of spare time. Members taking interventions would be preferable to any shouting out from the seats.15:57
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
I preface my remarks by stating for the record that I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland and that I hold a current practising certificate. I remember...
James Kelly Lab
Annabelle Ewing’s premise seems to be that the Supreme Court’s ability to take cases from Scotland should be limited. It was not clear from the cabinet secre...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
If I understand James Kelly correctly, he is addressing the issue of deleting the reference to the Lord Advocate and extending it to cover public bodies, whi...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Lord McCluskey’s group for the effort that it has made and the quality of the report that it has produced in such quick time and in unfortunate circu...
Derek Mackay (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) SNP
Does the member not think that he, like many Labour Party members, is becoming victim to thinking that the debate is about the rhetoric rather than the subst...