Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 September 2011
29 Sep 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Cancer Drugs
I welcome the debate. As all of us in the chamber will recognise, the issues are complex, emotive, sensitive and often very challenging. Because of that, however, there is an obligation on us all to debate the issues rationally, responsibly and accurately at all times.
First of all, comparisons between Scotland and England are not always valid; indeed, they are often extremely misleading. The simple fact is that lists of medicines do not tell the whole story of improvements in cancer care. One cannot simply say that, at any one time, a single fixed list of cancer medicines is being provided in England but not in Scotland.
I have studied the Rarer Cancers Foundation report; it is helpful in many respects. Furthermore, I respect the organisation’s work. Nevertheless, the report contains errors, and some of the claims that have been made and the basis on which the conclusions have been reached are open to serious challenge. For example, some of the medicines that have been listed as being not available in Scotland are, in fact, available. There has been double counting, and some of the “not recommended” decisions were made because the pharmaceutical company in question had not made a submission to the SMC. I will discuss those issues with the Rarer Cancers Foundation in due course.
There are, and will continue to be, differences between Scotland and England. There are drugs available in Scotland that are not available in England. The position changes rapidly because of the number of new medicines that become available. We should also remember that although the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in England reviews only a selection of new drugs, the Scottish Medicines Consortium quickly reviews all new drugs that get a licence.
Of course, making such comparisons suggests that there is a uniform position across England. That is not the case. From what we can see from published policies on the interim cancer drugs fund, it appears that English regions are adopting different approaches to its application.
The key point is that the Scottish Government has been anything but complacent on the issue. We have worked collaboratively to put in place continuously improving and robust arrangements for assessment and introduction of new medicines. Indeed, that was demonstrated in the substantial amount of work that was carried out with the Public Petitions Committee. It is instructive that, in closing the petition in question, the committee highlighted improvements that have been made in the national health service in Scotland.
I say again—and will continue to say—what I have said previously: I am and always will be open-minded about what more can be done and I will always consider any ways in which we can further improve access to clinically evidenced and cost-effective medicines that improve patients’ outcomes. We are keeping the existing arrangements under review and will make changes where necessary.
We are also looking to the future. The position continues to evolve with, for example, the UK Government’s plans to introduce value-based pricing. I have written to the Secretary of State for Health and we are working with the Department of Health in England to ensure that our interests are fully recognised and that we can consider the wider implications for Scotland.
Our fundamental efforts remain focused on three principles: first, our having robust and independent national and local arrangements for timely assessment of new medicines to ensure that they are clinically evidenced and cost effective; secondly, our having consistent arrangements for consideration of individual cases where a particular medicine has not been recommended by the Scottish Medicines Consortium—I note that a vast majority of individual treatment requests are granted; and thirdly, there must be a clear focus on equity.
Although I absolutely understand the prominence that is given to cancer drugs and although I can, at first glance, see the attraction of a cancer drugs fund, my concern about equity leads me to agree with Breakthrough Breast Cancer, Macmillan Cancer Support and Myeloma UK. In a briefing for this debate—a briefing, I should point out, that recognises and welcomes the extent of the improvements that have been made and acknowledges the need for them to bed in—those respected cancer charities have said that, in their opinion, a cancer drugs fund is not a necessary policy for Scotland.
I have two key concerns about equity. First, I am concerned about the risk of a cancer drugs fund creating inequity between those who suffer from cancer and those who suffer from other serious conditions, such as Alzheimer’s and heart disease. We should continue to improve access to drugs; however, in my view, that should mean access to all drugs—not just to cancer drugs.
First of all, comparisons between Scotland and England are not always valid; indeed, they are often extremely misleading. The simple fact is that lists of medicines do not tell the whole story of improvements in cancer care. One cannot simply say that, at any one time, a single fixed list of cancer medicines is being provided in England but not in Scotland.
I have studied the Rarer Cancers Foundation report; it is helpful in many respects. Furthermore, I respect the organisation’s work. Nevertheless, the report contains errors, and some of the claims that have been made and the basis on which the conclusions have been reached are open to serious challenge. For example, some of the medicines that have been listed as being not available in Scotland are, in fact, available. There has been double counting, and some of the “not recommended” decisions were made because the pharmaceutical company in question had not made a submission to the SMC. I will discuss those issues with the Rarer Cancers Foundation in due course.
There are, and will continue to be, differences between Scotland and England. There are drugs available in Scotland that are not available in England. The position changes rapidly because of the number of new medicines that become available. We should also remember that although the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in England reviews only a selection of new drugs, the Scottish Medicines Consortium quickly reviews all new drugs that get a licence.
Of course, making such comparisons suggests that there is a uniform position across England. That is not the case. From what we can see from published policies on the interim cancer drugs fund, it appears that English regions are adopting different approaches to its application.
The key point is that the Scottish Government has been anything but complacent on the issue. We have worked collaboratively to put in place continuously improving and robust arrangements for assessment and introduction of new medicines. Indeed, that was demonstrated in the substantial amount of work that was carried out with the Public Petitions Committee. It is instructive that, in closing the petition in question, the committee highlighted improvements that have been made in the national health service in Scotland.
I say again—and will continue to say—what I have said previously: I am and always will be open-minded about what more can be done and I will always consider any ways in which we can further improve access to clinically evidenced and cost-effective medicines that improve patients’ outcomes. We are keeping the existing arrangements under review and will make changes where necessary.
We are also looking to the future. The position continues to evolve with, for example, the UK Government’s plans to introduce value-based pricing. I have written to the Secretary of State for Health and we are working with the Department of Health in England to ensure that our interests are fully recognised and that we can consider the wider implications for Scotland.
Our fundamental efforts remain focused on three principles: first, our having robust and independent national and local arrangements for timely assessment of new medicines to ensure that they are clinically evidenced and cost effective; secondly, our having consistent arrangements for consideration of individual cases where a particular medicine has not been recommended by the Scottish Medicines Consortium—I note that a vast majority of individual treatment requests are granted; and thirdly, there must be a clear focus on equity.
Although I absolutely understand the prominence that is given to cancer drugs and although I can, at first glance, see the attraction of a cancer drugs fund, my concern about equity leads me to agree with Breakthrough Breast Cancer, Macmillan Cancer Support and Myeloma UK. In a briefing for this debate—a briefing, I should point out, that recognises and welcomes the extent of the improvements that have been made and acknowledges the need for them to bed in—those respected cancer charities have said that, in their opinion, a cancer drugs fund is not a necessary policy for Scotland.
I have two key concerns about equity. First, I am concerned about the risk of a cancer drugs fund creating inequity between those who suffer from cancer and those who suffer from other serious conditions, such as Alzheimer’s and heart disease. We should continue to improve access to drugs; however, in my view, that should mean access to all drugs—not just to cancer drugs.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-00956, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on cancer drugs and their availability in Scotland. I ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
We have all seen newspaper headlines such as “Scots ‘worst’ for cancer survival”, “Lung cancer survival among the lowest in Europe” and Scotland “has the low...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
I welcome the debate. As all of us in the chamber will recognise, the issues are complex, emotive, sensitive and often very challenging. Because of that, how...
Murdo Fraser
Con
I entirely understand the cabinet secretary’s point about equity. However, at the heart of that very question is the fact that we are where we are in relatio...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I have already challenged that proposition and am happy to do so in greater detail in discussion with Murdo Fraser.The second key equity issue is the risk of...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
Back in 2009, in response to the Public Petitions Committee inquiry, the cabinet secretary outlined three steps that her Government would take to improve acc...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, thank the Conservatives for bringing the debate on access to cancer drugs to the chamber, because it gives us all an opportunity to consider how well...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
This is a point of information rather than a question, but Jackie Baillie will be aware—if she is not, she will be soon—that as part of the improvements that...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
That will be helpful. I hope that we can access the information soon.I encourage the Scottish Government to make further improvements. I pose the question wh...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We move to the open debate. I remind members that speeches should be of four minutes. Time is really tight.09:40
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
The debate is an emotive one. I thank Breakthrough Breast Cancer, Macmillan Cancer Support and Myeloma UK for their briefing.Murdo Fraser used the word “mora...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I very much welcome the debate, which highlights dilemmas that we face now, and which will become far more acute in the near future.On a recent visit to the ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
For a country that is reputedly obsessed with sport, Scotland’s health record is not good and we all know it. For much of the time that the Parliament has ex...
Alex Johnstone
Con
I will not take an intervention because I have only four minutes and need to get one key principle across.Some years ago, I visited a research unit at the Un...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
I know that my time is limited so I will try to be brief. This debate is on another emotive subject and I take on board the story of Murdo Fraser’s constitue...
Murdo Fraser
Con
If the member had read our fully costed manifesto he would have seen that, among other things, we do not think that it is right to be giving free prescriptio...
George Adam
SNP
I am glad I did not read the manifesto. The people of Paisley have an entirely different idea. They do not want to have to decide to pay either for their mes...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Everyone has said that the debate is very emotive, and it is. There is probably no one in the chamber or watching the debate who has not been touched by canc...
Alex Johnstone
Con
Would the member concede that, although it is not the job of politicians to decide what drugs should be available, it is certainly the job of politicians to ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I listened to yesterday’s debate on mental health in which there seemed to be agreement that it was up to clinicians to decide what to prescribe. For the sit...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
Will the member give way?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I have given way once and I have only four minutes.I wish the debate was more about prevention than about setting up a separate drugs fund. We have heard abo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member really needs to wind up.
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.We should think about prevention rather than necessarily having to deal with cures all the time.09:58
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in such a sensitive but crucial debate. The Scottish Conservatives are right to bring the issue to the chamber today. I su...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Like many in the chamber and in wider society, I have experience of losing a family member to cancer. It is worth noting that none of us in the chamber is im...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Mr McDonald, will you conclude?
Mark McDonald
SNP
I will conclude with one final quotation from the oncology commission journal of The Lancet:“prevention is also essential and this too demands political will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We turn to closing speeches. I call Alison McInnes, who has kindly offered to take less than her allocated time.10:05
Alison McInnes
LD
I listened carefully to the cabinet secretary’s speech this morning and found it illuminating. The situation is not as clear-cut as the Conservatives have su...