Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 23 November 2011
23 Nov 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers and Young Carers Strategy
First, I declare an interest as co-convener of the current cross-party group on carers, having been a deputy convener of the group in session 3 of the Parliament.
During this period, I have learned a great deal about the range of people who carry out the role of carer and the range of caring that they perform. I have also been very impressed by the genuine concern across the parties in the chamber on the issue of carers. It is not just something that we debate every six months or year; it is something that members make an effort to promote as an issue of concern.
I have learned a great deal more about the range of people who are carers, because there are around 657,000 carers in Scotland and we all know at least one person, friend or relative who carries out this vital role—we may live next door to these people. However, how often do we take the time to think about the carers we know, who are part of a large, generally hidden army of decent, caring Scots who are obviously not in it for the money? Do we just, unthinkingly, say, “Ach, that is just your mother looking after your father between visits from the district nurse”?
Although it is that, it is an awful lot more than that as well. Carers range from the more than 100,000 children and young people who provide emotional, physical and practical support to a relative at the same time as coping with all the normal and everyday issues surrounding growing up that we have all had to manage; to the more than 250,000 people who balance necessary paid work—very necessary paid work in most cases—with being an unpaid carer for a loved one; and on to the pensioners caring for adult children and grannies caring for grandas. The role of carer falls mostly—although by no means exclusively—to women, which results in low incomes and limited career prospects for them.
Four weeks ago, we had the latest meeting of the cross-party group here in the Parliament. I am pleased to say that the minister was in attendance—it was the first time that a health minister had appeared as a guest at the cross-party group. The minister spoke about the Government programme and the carers and young carers strategy and answered a range of questions from a varied group of carers and carer organisations. He was roundly welcomed as he addressed the issues raised and listened seriously to those gathered there.
The 10,600 extra respite weeks and the commitment to a guarantee of 20 per cent from the change fund to support carers were very much welcomed by all in attendance at the group, as was the commitment to continue to consult carers organisations in the on-going development of the carers strategy.
However, let us remember that, at the moment, we in this Parliament can deliver only part of the solution. It is my belief that in this place we should stand together to campaign for an urgent review of carers allowance, which is the lowest of the earnings-related benefits as it is paid at less than jobseekers allowance. I was on jobseekers allowance a number of years back and I know that it was low enough. Anything lower than that is barely worth claiming, except that people have to claim it if they are stuck in the position of being a carer with no other opportunity for income.
If Westminster continues its intransigence over the situation, we will need to have the powers over benefits brought to the Scottish Parliament to enable us to make the decisions here, instead of constantly fighting a rearguard action against carer poverty in Scotland. In the meantime, however, we must ensure that the commitments made on delivery through local authorities are evaluated. I ask the minister to tell us in his summing-up how the Scottish Government can ensure that the third sector, in its attempts to deliver on the rights under the carers and young carers strategies, is not stymied by some of the councils in this country. The minister mentioned that in his opening speech; I would like him to do so again in his closing speech. I know that this is not in the minister’s gift, but I just thought that I would throw it in anyway: I would like penalties to be considered for councils that receive money that is intended for carers but redirect it to other council priorities, which is a real shame.
I am very pleased by the steps towards carer proofing change fund resources, which is very much to be welcomed.
It has been said before, but it bears saying again: who cares for the carers? Let it not be said that this Parliament fails to answer that question. Let us support the full implementation of the Scottish Government’s carers and young carers strategy. Let this Parliament stand together on the side of carers.
15:28
During this period, I have learned a great deal about the range of people who carry out the role of carer and the range of caring that they perform. I have also been very impressed by the genuine concern across the parties in the chamber on the issue of carers. It is not just something that we debate every six months or year; it is something that members make an effort to promote as an issue of concern.
I have learned a great deal more about the range of people who are carers, because there are around 657,000 carers in Scotland and we all know at least one person, friend or relative who carries out this vital role—we may live next door to these people. However, how often do we take the time to think about the carers we know, who are part of a large, generally hidden army of decent, caring Scots who are obviously not in it for the money? Do we just, unthinkingly, say, “Ach, that is just your mother looking after your father between visits from the district nurse”?
Although it is that, it is an awful lot more than that as well. Carers range from the more than 100,000 children and young people who provide emotional, physical and practical support to a relative at the same time as coping with all the normal and everyday issues surrounding growing up that we have all had to manage; to the more than 250,000 people who balance necessary paid work—very necessary paid work in most cases—with being an unpaid carer for a loved one; and on to the pensioners caring for adult children and grannies caring for grandas. The role of carer falls mostly—although by no means exclusively—to women, which results in low incomes and limited career prospects for them.
Four weeks ago, we had the latest meeting of the cross-party group here in the Parliament. I am pleased to say that the minister was in attendance—it was the first time that a health minister had appeared as a guest at the cross-party group. The minister spoke about the Government programme and the carers and young carers strategy and answered a range of questions from a varied group of carers and carer organisations. He was roundly welcomed as he addressed the issues raised and listened seriously to those gathered there.
The 10,600 extra respite weeks and the commitment to a guarantee of 20 per cent from the change fund to support carers were very much welcomed by all in attendance at the group, as was the commitment to continue to consult carers organisations in the on-going development of the carers strategy.
However, let us remember that, at the moment, we in this Parliament can deliver only part of the solution. It is my belief that in this place we should stand together to campaign for an urgent review of carers allowance, which is the lowest of the earnings-related benefits as it is paid at less than jobseekers allowance. I was on jobseekers allowance a number of years back and I know that it was low enough. Anything lower than that is barely worth claiming, except that people have to claim it if they are stuck in the position of being a carer with no other opportunity for income.
If Westminster continues its intransigence over the situation, we will need to have the powers over benefits brought to the Scottish Parliament to enable us to make the decisions here, instead of constantly fighting a rearguard action against carer poverty in Scotland. In the meantime, however, we must ensure that the commitments made on delivery through local authorities are evaluated. I ask the minister to tell us in his summing-up how the Scottish Government can ensure that the third sector, in its attempts to deliver on the rights under the carers and young carers strategies, is not stymied by some of the councils in this country. The minister mentioned that in his opening speech; I would like him to do so again in his closing speech. I know that this is not in the minister’s gift, but I just thought that I would throw it in anyway: I would like penalties to be considered for councils that receive money that is intended for carers but redirect it to other council priorities, which is a real shame.
I am very pleased by the steps towards carer proofing change fund resources, which is very much to be welcomed.
It has been said before, but it bears saying again: who cares for the carers? Let it not be said that this Parliament fails to answer that question. Let us support the full implementation of the Scottish Government’s carers and young carers strategy. Let this Parliament stand together on the side of carers.
15:28
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01399, in the name of Michael Matheson, on implementation of the carers and young carers strategy.14:33
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
I open the debate by acknowledging the huge commitment and support that is provided by Scotland’s estimated 650,000 carers and up to 100,000 young carers. Un...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I certainly do not doubt the minister’s intention, but how is the Government going to monitor the situation to ensure that that happens? It is what happens o...
Michael Matheson
SNP
We have 32 local delivery change plans in place. They must be signed off by the health board, the local authority and the third sector. When a bid is made fo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Richard Simpson to speak to and move amendment S4M-1399.3. Dr Simpson, you have 10 minutes. 14:48
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to open and close this important debate. My colleague Claire Baker will talk in more detail about child and student carers, as wel...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
With regard to the financial impact, does Dr Simpson share my regret that the carers allowance remains such a pitiful sum, and excludes many carers—particula...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I agree with Mark McDonald on that, and I add that the Welfare Reform Bill will not help matters, because some carers will lose their allowance as people wil...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member needs to wind up.
Dr Simpson
Lab
We acknowledge the Government’s motion.I move amendment S4M-01399.3, to leave out from “agrees” to end and insert:“further acknowledges promises in successiv...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
In recognising the enormous contribution that carers and young carers make to society and to the Scottish economy through the considerable sums of money that...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
If we asked for a show of hands from members who are either carers or who know of someone close to them who is a carer, we would have an almost 100 per cent ...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
The minister made it clear in his speech just how much the Scottish Government recognises the debt that Scotland owes to its carers and the huge role that th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate on carers. My family chose to be carers—they made a positive decision to take on the responsibility of ...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
SNP
First, I declare an interest as co-convener of the current cross-party group on carers, having been a deputy convener of the group in session 3 of the Parlia...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I very much welcome the strategy and the strong statement of intent that it contains. It is clear from what the minister has said, and indeed from the increa...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When I read the Government’s carers strategy, one passage immediately stood out:“Carers are ... fundamental to strong families and partnerships and to resili...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I suspend the meeting until the sound gets sorted out.15:35 Meeting suspended. 15:44 On resuming—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
If members are sitting comfortably, we will begin again. I invite Siobhan McMahon to resume at an appropriate place in her speech; we will be generous with t...
Siobhan McMahon
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for breaking the system.A recurrent problem with Government strategies is the glaring contrast between the words on...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
I am aware of X and I am glad that Siobhan McMahon has raised her case. Does the member agree that sometimes the intention to help people does not work out? ...
Siobhan McMahon
Lab
I could not agree more. Those problems will develop as we go forward in life, as challenges face us.Local authorities must view the provision of short breaks...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am sorry about the interruption. I call Fiona McLeod, who will have a very tight six minutes. Others may have to reduce their speeches.15:50
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
Last Friday, I was at the Carers Link East Dunbartonshire annual general meeting. In the past year, Carers Link East Dunbartonshire has identified and suppor...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I would like to look at the issue in the context of the fact that my wife and I are now both carers for an extremely elderly relative. I acknowledge that our...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to speak in the debate on the Government’s strategy for carers, especially as carers’ rights day will take place on Friday 2 Decem...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The member must conclude, please.
Margaret McCulloch
Lab
—but they are all to be praised for the service that they give and the sacrifices that they make.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call George Adam, who has a maximum of six minutes.16:08
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—I will try to be as succinct as possible in order to let other colleagues in. I see that members are laughing, but I promise tha...