Committee
Health and Sport Committee 10 January 2012
10 Jan 2012 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning, Professor Stockwell. In your paper on the experience in British Columbia and in your presentation, you made it clear to the committee that the impact of minimum pricing is a substantial reduction in alcohol consumption, which is interesting. In your responses to Fiona McLeod and Bob Doris you were confident about the positive impact that minimum pricing would have in Scotland.You said that a 10 per cent increase in the minimum price brought about a reduction in consumption of all beverages of 3.4 per cent. Such a reduction does not appear significant, as you said, but for specific types of alcoholic beverage, such as alcoholic sodas and packaged cider, the reduction was substantially greater. Will you say a little more about the differential in the decrease in consumption?If we apply the lessons of Canada to Scotland, are you in a position to comment on whether minimum unit pricing will put Scotland in a better position in relation to the substitution effect that is the result of the particular way in which reference pricing works in Canada?
In the same item of business
The Convener (Duncan McNeil)
Lab
Good evening and welcome to the second meeting of the Health and Sport Committee in 2012. I remind everyone present that mobile phones and BlackBerrys should...
Professor Timothy Stockwell (University of Victoria, British Columbia)
It is my pleasure. Good evening, everybody.I can give the committee a two-minute or a 10-minute version, depending on what it wishes. My group in British Col...
The Convener
Lab
Yes, that would be helpful, Professor Stockwell. We have around 10 minutes for a presentation. We appreciate that.
Professor Stockwell
There has been minimum pricing in Canada in around eight of our 10 provinces for many years in most instances. It is part of a suite of pricing strategies th...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you very much.
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
Good evening, Professor Stockwell. It is great to have you here by video link. I do not know whether you remember, but I was in the audience when you were in...
Professor Stockwell
Sure. It is very nice to see you again, at more of a distance this time. You are correct in thinking that I was a little shocked—you can tell from the way th...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Good evening. One of your presentation slides shows minimum prices in Canada by jurisdiction. Eight out of 10 provinces have minimum pricing in Government an...
Professor Stockwell
That is a very good question and we are currently looking into it. Unfortunately, although we have world-class sales data, it is hard to get data on alcohol-...
The Convener
Lab
Professor Stockwell, I have a question on the theme of the provinces where there is price control. Do you have any comment to make on the point that, althoug...
Professor Stockwell
Most of the northern provinces and territories—places such as the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and the Yukon—have the highest level of consumption. The wes...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you for the presentation, which was very helpful. All the pieces of the jigsaw seem to be falling into place and the evidence is showing that an increa...
Professor Stockwell
Absolutely. I worked with the Sheffield group and was on the advisory committee when it developed its first model. Of course, the impact is determined by whe...
Bob Doris
SNP
Thank you for that answer. I also have a question on moderate drinkers. The evidence that we heard at this morning’s committee meeting suggests that all grou...
Professor Stockwell
You are probably way ahead of us in that. You have to be, because you have lodged a bill in Parliament on minimum alcohol pricing. You might say that we are ...
Bob Doris
SNP
Thank you very much, Professor Stockwell. I may have some more questions later on, but I will let some of my committee colleagues come in now.
The Convener
Lab
I have a list of members here, but I just have one question for Professor Stockwell first. You challenged us to be brave enough about the minimum price per u...
Professor Stockwell
If we do direct equivalences, which is a dangerous thing, I guess that the highest minimum price in Canada at the moment, which I think is a pretty good star...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
SNP
It is nice to hear from you, Professor Stockwell. Have you an idea of how the costs that you mentioned relate to average disposable income? A direct comparis...
Professor Stockwell
As I said, it is dangerous to make the comparison. The issue needs a little more careful inquiry.
Gil Paterson
SNP
I wonder whether the minimum price’s effect flatlines. If we want the effect to continue and be maximised, must we stimulate a price increase every so often?
Professor Stockwell
We should look at the issue from the other end and try to fight against a decline in the value of the minimum price. What typically happens is that a price i...
Gil Paterson
SNP
Strictly speaking, is it the cost that has the effect, rather than the shock tactics of the price going up?
Professor Stockwell
I believe so. There are price adjustments all the time. In a typical Government liquor store there are 5,500 different products, with a range of prices. I am...
Gil Paterson
SNP
Thank you. I might come back to you later.
Jim Eadie (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, Professor Stockwell. In your paper on the experience in British Columbia and in your presentation, you made it clear to the committee that the ...
Professor Stockwell
Theoretically, you are in a much better position. Yours is the purest approach because you are starting from the public health aspect. Usually, minimum price...
Jim Eadie
SNP
That is helpful.In your presentation, you mentioned the 4 per cent reduction in hospital admissions that occurred in Canada as a result of the changes that w...
Professor Stockwell
Unfortunately, no—there have just been the two things that I mentioned. One was the observation from the Saskatchewan police. That was not a formal scientifi...
Jim Eadie
SNP
Finally, can you say a little about the differences between the UK and Canadian alcohol markets? Is there anything in those differences that would undermine ...