Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 06 October 2011
06 Oct 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Heritage (Digital Technology)
Like many others in the chamber, I welcome the debate. There has been a learning curve for a number of members. There has certainly been support for, as well as some focused concern from, different agencies that are charged with maintaining—if that is the right word—or managing our heritage. The debate highlights the asset that Scotland’s heritage undoubtedly is, but we must acknowledge the not inconsiderable barriers that will, if they remain unaddressed, restrict the access that the Scottish Government recognises should be comprehensive.
Last week, we debated the introduction of Scottish studies into the curricula of both primary and secondary school education. The programme should and must give all our pupils access to our history, geography and culture. It would be passing strange if the work of Historic Scotland, the national library and museum, the Scottish Council on Archives, Scottish Natural Heritage, the Built Environment Forum Scotland and others was not central to their learning.
When Patricia Ferguson made a plea for every organisation to be acknowledged, I had sympathy for the cabinet secretary because there are so many—each of us could mention many just in our own constituencies. They perhaps do not make the same investment in digital evidence as the example that we saw last night, but they provide the book of first entry, if you like, in recording social history at home.
The place of heritage in education is therefore not questioned, and indeed is not new. All the organisations have declared their commitment to their educational programmes in their manifestos and business plans.
My hope for the Scottish studies programme is that all those organisations and agencies become household names in Scotland and that we do not have to see a list of them because they are—as I think they should be—completely integral to life in this country. No one should be in any doubt about their existence, their purpose or their ambitions.
Patricia Ferguson raised a point that focused on the challenge to the Government. She gave the example of the Titian that was toured around Scotland. As somebody who lives in what is considered to be remote and rural Scotland, I know that there is nothing better than getting to come to Glasgow and Edinburgh. For a lot of people—schoolchildren and youngsters, among others—it is no longer unrealistic to find time to visit the central belt and Scotland’s museums. There is a limit to what can be toured around. Such tours should be part of a programme—outreach work is important—but we should not forget that people want to come to the palaces of art and the museums to see the artefacts, too.
I congratulate Clare Adamson on hosting the event in the Parliament last night at which a number of members were introduced to the wonders of the digital age. Being taken on a digital tour of a royal palace such as Stirling castle and the archipelago of St Kilda, which has been mentioned, and then, at the press of a button, zooming in on Mount Rushmore in South Dakota, was amazing—and that is just the start. The Scottish ten project is one of a number of fantastic projects and, if we do our job properly, no one in Scotland will be unaware of it.
In addition, at the event we had ScotlandsPeople and ScotlandsPlaces making tracing ancestry accessible—and making it look easy, if only at the time. I think that we all found, among others, our great-grandfathers or great-great-grandfathers last night. Genealogy is a fairly recent tourist attraction and it is attracting ever-growing numbers. The tourism industry is always looking for new attractions, and this one is sure to run and run. The Scottish diaspora are still looking homeward, and they seem more determined than ever to search for family roots, which brings them back to find the tenements or crofts of their forefathers and foremothers. In Highland, we opened a multimillion pound archive centre in 2008. It is based in Inverness but has links and outreach to Caithness, Lochaber and Skye—all areas of clearance and depopulation at various times. It is well placed to attract our people back and help them to trace their roots.
So, both education and tourism could benefit enormously from the digital developments in our heritage industries, if I can give them such an unappealing generic title. However, there are barriers, about which concerns have been expressed elsewhere by the agencies. The biggest barrier in remote and rural Scotland is the lack of broadband, which has been mentioned by David Stewart and Jamie McGrigor. That is a potential barrier to a great deal and must be a consideration. I am not an expert on information technology—quite the opposite, in fact—but I know that, increasingly, education, tourism, business development and growth, cultural expansion, innovation and creativity are all moving onwards in digital time.
Last week, we debated the introduction of Scottish studies into the curricula of both primary and secondary school education. The programme should and must give all our pupils access to our history, geography and culture. It would be passing strange if the work of Historic Scotland, the national library and museum, the Scottish Council on Archives, Scottish Natural Heritage, the Built Environment Forum Scotland and others was not central to their learning.
When Patricia Ferguson made a plea for every organisation to be acknowledged, I had sympathy for the cabinet secretary because there are so many—each of us could mention many just in our own constituencies. They perhaps do not make the same investment in digital evidence as the example that we saw last night, but they provide the book of first entry, if you like, in recording social history at home.
The place of heritage in education is therefore not questioned, and indeed is not new. All the organisations have declared their commitment to their educational programmes in their manifestos and business plans.
My hope for the Scottish studies programme is that all those organisations and agencies become household names in Scotland and that we do not have to see a list of them because they are—as I think they should be—completely integral to life in this country. No one should be in any doubt about their existence, their purpose or their ambitions.
Patricia Ferguson raised a point that focused on the challenge to the Government. She gave the example of the Titian that was toured around Scotland. As somebody who lives in what is considered to be remote and rural Scotland, I know that there is nothing better than getting to come to Glasgow and Edinburgh. For a lot of people—schoolchildren and youngsters, among others—it is no longer unrealistic to find time to visit the central belt and Scotland’s museums. There is a limit to what can be toured around. Such tours should be part of a programme—outreach work is important—but we should not forget that people want to come to the palaces of art and the museums to see the artefacts, too.
I congratulate Clare Adamson on hosting the event in the Parliament last night at which a number of members were introduced to the wonders of the digital age. Being taken on a digital tour of a royal palace such as Stirling castle and the archipelago of St Kilda, which has been mentioned, and then, at the press of a button, zooming in on Mount Rushmore in South Dakota, was amazing—and that is just the start. The Scottish ten project is one of a number of fantastic projects and, if we do our job properly, no one in Scotland will be unaware of it.
In addition, at the event we had ScotlandsPeople and ScotlandsPlaces making tracing ancestry accessible—and making it look easy, if only at the time. I think that we all found, among others, our great-grandfathers or great-great-grandfathers last night. Genealogy is a fairly recent tourist attraction and it is attracting ever-growing numbers. The tourism industry is always looking for new attractions, and this one is sure to run and run. The Scottish diaspora are still looking homeward, and they seem more determined than ever to search for family roots, which brings them back to find the tenements or crofts of their forefathers and foremothers. In Highland, we opened a multimillion pound archive centre in 2008. It is based in Inverness but has links and outreach to Caithness, Lochaber and Skye—all areas of clearance and depopulation at various times. It is well placed to attract our people back and help them to trace their roots.
So, both education and tourism could benefit enormously from the digital developments in our heritage industries, if I can give them such an unappealing generic title. However, there are barriers, about which concerns have been expressed elsewhere by the agencies. The biggest barrier in remote and rural Scotland is the lack of broadband, which has been mentioned by David Stewart and Jamie McGrigor. That is a potential barrier to a great deal and must be a consideration. I am not an expert on information technology—quite the opposite, in fact—but I know that, increasingly, education, tourism, business development and growth, cultural expansion, innovation and creativity are all moving onwards in digital time.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01023, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the digital future of Scotland’s heritage.15:25
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
Scotland’s heritage is one of our greatest assets and it attracts many visitors from overseas. Scotland offers not only tremendous natural beauty but an incr...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
Does the cabinet secretary appreciate that, in my region of the Highlands and Islands, a great many people cannot access broadband properly? What can be done...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
One thing that can be done is to ensure that the United Kingdom Government invests. When I met Jeremy Hunt only a few weeks ago, we discussed the very point ...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
The detailed spending plans show that the budget for Historic Scotland, which is doing a lot of the digital work to put archives on the internet, is being cu...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
No, it will not. The Labour Party’s amendment raises concerns about the spend in the area. I reassure members that Historic Scotland’s front-line services wi...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Does the cabinet secretary recognise the exciting work that the University of Dundee has done on its family history project in its digital archives and the d...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am more than happy to recognise the University of Dundee and, indeed, all the partners. Scotland really is world leading. We think nothing of debating the ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am afraid that I will need to make progress.From next year, digital access to 3 million images of the kirk session records will be made more widely availab...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn)
Lab
From the early years of photography on Calton hill in the 1840s and the establishment of the camera obscura in Edinburgh during the 1850s, we have been fasci...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
As the member will appreciate, given her colleague’s remarks about the University of Dundee, had we named every organisation, the motion would perhaps have r...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for that explanation. I hope that it means that the Government will be able to support our amendment.If we really want to celeb...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Scotland’s heritage does not speak just of our past; it speaks of who we are. From crannog to castle to computer, there is much in the cultural, antiquity, v...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am equally enthusiastic about the site. Unfortunately, when I have had meetings with the UK Government, the Conservative minister John Penrose has indicate...
Ruth Davidson
Con
As I have said for several minutes, I think that the site is a fantastic resource. I support ICH’s work and I support any investment and help that can be giv...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to contribute to this debate on the digital future of Scotland’s heritage. From my perspective, as a computer science graduate from the Univer...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to speak in the debate. My experience is similar to Willie Coffey’s, in that I had a 20-year career in the IT industry prior to entering polit...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
A cynical observer, reading that we were to discuss the digital future of Scotland’s heritage, could easily dismiss our proceedings as dry, irrelevant or out...
Ruth Davidson
Con
Does David Stewart acknowledge that some of us like dusty libraries and museums, that using a computer could direct more people to go and see things in the f...
David Stewart
Lab
I am happy to share memories of dusty museums with the member.The scanning technology can also be used for mobile applications and remote access to inaccessi...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Like many others in the chamber, I welcome the debate. There has been a learning curve for a number of members. There has certainly been support for, as well...
Jean Urquhart
SNP
I am nearly there.This is where our ambitions for the digital future of Scotland’s heritage may take some time to be realised. Although we have made the inve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
I am afraid that you are going to have to finish now, please.
Jean Urquhart
SNP
I will finish on an optimistic note. I applaud the work of all the agencies whose work is concerned with our living history. That work is sustaining our natu...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
We have all mentioned various projects in our areas. If the cabinet secretary had to put them all in a motion, she would probably need a digital archive of h...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is good to have the opportunity to speak in the debate and to acknowledge the work that Historic Scotland is doing in partnership with others through the...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Mark Griffin might be aware that there was a conference recently on the frontiers of the Roman empire, which was attended by visitors from Germany and elsewh...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I am sure that those people will have been members of the Croy Historical Society. They display massive passion for their local history and heritage and for ...
Bill Walker (Dunfermline) (SNP)
SNP
Does Mark Griffin agree that the problems with broadband exist not only in the Highlands and that there are broadband problems in the central belt, due to th...