Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 06 October 2011
06 Oct 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing
That intervention goes to the nub of the argument. It is one thing to say, “We are providing funding to build new houses,” but, if the provision of that funding shifts the balance away from houses that people on low incomes can afford to houses at mid-market rent, it will not achieve the objective that the SNP set out in its manifesto.
Nevertheless, I am happy to welcome the progress that has been made. As we have heard this morning, Mr Brown has moved on from the position he outlined in his 30 June letter to me, in which he refused to set a social rented housing target. On 22 September, the day after a spending review that was heavily criticised for its cuts to housing, he finally promised at a housing conference that
“at least two-thirds of these homes”—
the 30,000 affordable homes planned for the next five years—
“will be for social rent”.
That is good. It means that there will be at least 20,000 social rented homes. It is a big step forward from the lack of a social rented target that had been made apparent only a few weeks before and represents a clear acceptance from the minister that affordable homes are not the same as houses for social rent. However, there is still some way to go.
I guess that, tiresome though it may be, we will have to keep on reminding the SNP of its election promise. If we have succeeded in persuading ministers to increase their social housing ambitions from having no specific target at the end of June to having a target of 20,000 social rented homes at the end of September, we might even get them to endorse their manifesto in time for Christmas.
Of course, it will not be impossible for ministers to do so. As Malcolm Chisholm pointed out, they have to address the balance between different types of affordable housing in their current plans. They also have to listen to the views of those who are willing and able to build houses that are genuinely affordable for people on low incomes and ensure that there is adequate funding support to allow those developments to happen. Mr Neil and Mr Brown might need to have a word with Mr Swinney about his pledge of £500 million for preventative spending and explain to him just how preventative spending on new social housing can be. They might want to ask him about the consequentials from spending elsewhere that might be available to the Scottish Government and which were not accounted for in the spending review announcement of 21 September. Finally, they might want to explore the scope for adjusting Government priorities as the budget bill makes its way through Parliament in the months ahead. If they do not do so, the Scottish Government’s ability to deliver against any of its targets will remain uncertain as long as the available funding falls so far short of what is required.
That is not just an Opposition view; it is also the view of the housing sector. According to the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations,
“The most serious issue facing housing associations and co-operatives is that the overall budget for housing supply is falling steeply”
and an “austere grant rate” of £40,000 per unit for housing associations
“will not fund affordable rented housing, while keeping rents genuinely affordable to low income households”.
In other words, housing associations can build with that level of subsidy—indeed, we have seen as much—but only by borrowing larger sums per house, which will in turn require rental incomes that will price the poorest families out of the sector.
Shelter has also asked why the sector is apparently being punished for being willing and able to deliver homes at reduced levels of subsidy. If delivering more output for less input were indeed valued by ministers, one might have expected an increase rather than a cut.
Nevertheless, I am happy to welcome the progress that has been made. As we have heard this morning, Mr Brown has moved on from the position he outlined in his 30 June letter to me, in which he refused to set a social rented housing target. On 22 September, the day after a spending review that was heavily criticised for its cuts to housing, he finally promised at a housing conference that
“at least two-thirds of these homes”—
the 30,000 affordable homes planned for the next five years—
“will be for social rent”.
That is good. It means that there will be at least 20,000 social rented homes. It is a big step forward from the lack of a social rented target that had been made apparent only a few weeks before and represents a clear acceptance from the minister that affordable homes are not the same as houses for social rent. However, there is still some way to go.
I guess that, tiresome though it may be, we will have to keep on reminding the SNP of its election promise. If we have succeeded in persuading ministers to increase their social housing ambitions from having no specific target at the end of June to having a target of 20,000 social rented homes at the end of September, we might even get them to endorse their manifesto in time for Christmas.
Of course, it will not be impossible for ministers to do so. As Malcolm Chisholm pointed out, they have to address the balance between different types of affordable housing in their current plans. They also have to listen to the views of those who are willing and able to build houses that are genuinely affordable for people on low incomes and ensure that there is adequate funding support to allow those developments to happen. Mr Neil and Mr Brown might need to have a word with Mr Swinney about his pledge of £500 million for preventative spending and explain to him just how preventative spending on new social housing can be. They might want to ask him about the consequentials from spending elsewhere that might be available to the Scottish Government and which were not accounted for in the spending review announcement of 21 September. Finally, they might want to explore the scope for adjusting Government priorities as the budget bill makes its way through Parliament in the months ahead. If they do not do so, the Scottish Government’s ability to deliver against any of its targets will remain uncertain as long as the available funding falls so far short of what is required.
That is not just an Opposition view; it is also the view of the housing sector. According to the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations,
“The most serious issue facing housing associations and co-operatives is that the overall budget for housing supply is falling steeply”
and an “austere grant rate” of £40,000 per unit for housing associations
“will not fund affordable rented housing, while keeping rents genuinely affordable to low income households”.
In other words, housing associations can build with that level of subsidy—indeed, we have seen as much—but only by borrowing larger sums per house, which will in turn require rental incomes that will price the poorest families out of the sector.
Shelter has also asked why the sector is apparently being punished for being willing and able to deliver homes at reduced levels of subsidy. If delivering more output for less input were indeed valued by ministers, one might have expected an increase rather than a cut.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01022, in the name of Keith Brown, on housing.09:15
The Minister for Housing and Transport (Keith Brown)
SNP
I am delighted to lead this debate on housing, which is my first such debate as Minister for Housing and Transport. I intend to use the debate to point out a...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister confirm his party’s manifesto pledge to deliver 6,000 homes for social rent per year? Will that target be met?
Keith Brown
SNP
As I have said previously in the Parliament, and as the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth has said to the Parliament and in co...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Does the minister find it acceptable that the supply of social rented homes is plummeting, whereas he is talking about the broader definition of affordable h...
Keith Brown
SNP
I am not sure that I agree with the premise of the question that the supply of socially affordable houses is plummeting. I have just said that at least two t...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the minister acknowledge that, although he referred to “progressive increases” in the building standards for new stock, we have not seen progressive inc...
Keith Brown
SNP
Those points were well covered yesterday in the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure and Capital Investment. Our programme is progressive an...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Before I call Lewis Macdonald, I point out to members that we are going to be extremely generous with time. Feel free to take interventions; if you do, I wil...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Your generosity is, as always, much appreciated.When John Swinney introduced the draft budget and spending review a c...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give us a suggestion for some other capital programme that should not go ahead in order to fund housing, such as the Forth road bridge?
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
If John Mason is suggesting that the Government cuts the Forth road bridge in order to fund housing, perhaps he needs to take that up with his own front benc...
The Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure and Capital Investment (Alex Neil)
SNP
You should just have phoned me.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I could have phoned Mr Neil and I suspect that, if I had, I might have got a more direct answer than we have had so far in parliamentary debates. Perhaps tha...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
Does Lewis Macdonald agree that the situation is even worse? When he replied to me earlier, Keith Brown said that the commitment was now to build 4,000 socia...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That intervention goes to the nub of the argument. It is one thing to say, “We are providing funding to build new houses,” but, if the provision of that fund...
Keith Brown
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Briefly, please.
Keith Brown
SNP
First, I point out that Shelter asked for around £610 million in the budget and just over £600 million is being provided.Lewis Macdonald said that he will be...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
It is a fair question. Indeed, I put it to ministers. If they are listening to the housing sector, they know themselves—Interruption. Publishing a manifesto ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Alex Johnstone to speak to and move amendment S4M-01022.2. I will be generous with you, too, Mr Johnstone, if you take interventions. 09:39
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. In fact, the generosity that you have shown in this and previous debates indicates that the wise thing for us all to ...
Alex Neil
SNP
Will the member break the habit of a lifetime and suggest an innovative and creative measure that we are not taking?
Alex Johnstone
Con
We will get on to that. The innovation and investment fund has encouraged RSLs to do the Government’s job for it, and local authorities are now borrowing mon...
Keith Brown
SNP
On that last point, will the member acknowledge that our shared equity initiatives do exactly that by freeing up housing stock that can be used by other peop...
Alex Johnstone
Con
This is a time when we all have to find ways to make money go as far as possible, which means that some of us have to think the unthinkable. I would just lik...
Alex Neil
SNP
I need to correct the member on that point. We have made it absolutely clear that anyone who is evicted because they have been using drugs in a council or RS...
Alex Johnstone
Con
I have heard that explanation from the minister before and I am sure that he remembers that we have had this exchange before. The problem is that the practic...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We move to the open debate. My generosity is not boundless, but it still exists. Mr MacKenzie, you have about six minutes.09:49
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
I declare an interest and ask the Parliament to note my entry in the register of members’ interests.It is a great privilege to speak in the debate, because I...