Committee
Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 21 Jan 2003
21 Jan 2003 · S1 · Education, Culture and Sport Committee
Item of business
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I will follow up on the Meek report because it is important. The minister and I will disagree on virtually everything in his paper. Therefore, I am not going to waste the committee's time in going through it line by line, although that would be possible.The minister said that one recommendation of the Meek report has been honoured, which is the formation of the ministerial advisory group on Gaelic, to give it its real name. However, as he said, he has not implemented the first recommendation, which was:"That immediate action is taken to develop and implement a Gaelic Language Act to establish secure status for the language."The paragraph goes on to say that"The creation of such an Act is seen as vital by the Gaelic community and is fundamental in establishing community confidence and in securing the future prosperity of the language."On secure status for Gaelic, page 14 of the report, where those statements are expanded, states:"The Gaelic community was encouraged by the scale of cross-party commitment to ‘secure status' in the run-up to the Scottish Parliamentary elections in 1999. This was further reinforced by the promise from the Minister for Gaelic, Alasdair Morrison, at Còmhdhail 1999 in Portree ‘...to put Gaelic development on a fast track'. It has to be said"—these are the words of the ministerial advisory group—"that since then the rhetoric from Government has emphasised "working towards" legislation. There is a very strong feeling within the Gaelic community that at best the timetable has been extended, or at worst that all parties have reneged on their commitment to legislate for the language."The authors of the report said in evidence to the committee that they wished the minister and the Executive to put aside objections that were not principled and to try to make the bill work. When those people gave their evidence, I gave a commitment that there was nothing in the bill that I would not see changed if such a change would mean that there would, in the first Scottish Parliament for 300 years, be a Gaelic language act that would secure the language. Why will the minister not give the same commitment?
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener:
Lab
I welcome Mike Watson, Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, and Douglas Ansdell, head of the Gaelic unit in the Scottish Executive education department. ...
The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Mike Watson):
Lab
Bob Irvine has been called away on other business and is unable to attend. Thank you for inviting us to give evidence on the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill....
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
I thank the minister for his opening statement, but I want to press him a little on what he said. Everyone, including the bill's sponsor, agrees that it is f...
Mike Watson:
Lab
In preparation for today's meeting, I tried to establish just what the general principles of the bill are. Other than formally enshrining legal status for th...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I accept entirely that legislation is not the panacea that people sometimes view it as. However, the time scales and the time that is available are not neces...
Mike Watson:
Lab
The bill is certainly restrictive. I have discussed the matter with Michael Russell, so I understand why it was drawn up in that way. In my discussions with ...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
You said in your opening remarks that Gaelic has official status, but we have heard evidence that agencies such as the national lottery people do not give gr...
Mike Watson:
Lab
That issue was raised with me by Comhairle nan Sgoiltean Àraich, the pre-schools organisation, whose representatives came to see me about three months ago. I...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
The problem would be solved if there was an act that said, "Gaelic is an official language of Scotland." I have suggested to Michael Russell that, if the bil...
Mike Watson:
Lab
The idea of a one-line act was mentioned to me by members of Bòrd na Gàidhlig as a possible way forward for the future. I do not deny that there is an anomal...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
Just before I asked my first question, you went some way to answering the next question that I was going to ask. Do you foresee a Gaelic act of some sort in ...
Mike Watson:
Lab
Like members of other parties, I am involved in discussions with colleagues on our manifesto. I have argued the case that there should be a Gaelic language a...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I would like to expand on what Jackie Baillie said about the gap between what the Executive feels and what the bill proposes. Your written evidence is clear ...
Mike Watson:
Lab
Secure status can be achieved only by ensuring that more people learn to speak the language as a living language and not just as a hobby. It is particularly ...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
The evidence shows that the number of Gaelic speakers is not rising fast enough to save the language, and that the kind of means of voluntary enabling that y...
Mike Watson:
Lab
No, I am not—I covered that in my answer to Ian Jenkins. I do not believe that legislation will in itself achieve a step change, or that people are hanging b...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
You said that you expect the Gaelic board to produce a language plan for Gaelic. Would not legislative support assist the board in helping Gaelic to survive?...
Mike Watson:
Lab
It might be. I would expect the board to tell me such information when it gives me—or whoever is in my post—its language plan in about six months, or in the ...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
That would be quite similar to the Meek report recommendations.
Mike Watson:
Lab
The Meek report made two basic recommendations in May last year and, within a month, I announced that we had accepted one of them. The other recommendation w...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will follow up on the Meek report because it is important. The minister and I will disagree on virtually everything in his paper. Therefore, I am not going...
Mike Watson:
Lab
First, I reject the idea that objections to the bill are not principled—I would not have put them forward if they were not principled. "Working towards" secu...
Michael Russell:
SNP
The ministerial advisory group said that it is vital that we use the word "immediate". The Executive's submission to the committee talks about the establishm...
Mike Watson:
Lab
That is an over-dramatisation of the position.
Michael Russell:
SNP
It is not, according to the ministerial advisory group, an over-dramatisation.
Mike Watson:
Lab
The advisory group made two recommendations, one of which has been implemented. That is a 50 per cent success rate so far.The speed with which that recommend...
Michael Russell:
SNP
The Gaelic language is declining faster than it has declined in the past. In some way, we need to acknowledge both those things—
Mike Watson:
Lab
I am not sure that Gaelic is declining faster than in the past. Can Michael Russell justify that remark?
Michael Russell:
SNP
We will see in the census results.
Mike Watson:
Lab
Why would the language be declining faster when more children are in Gaelic-medium education? I do not think that people are dying quicker. People are living...