Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 23 February 2011
23 Feb 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Cadder Judgment
On 26 October 2010, the United Kingdom Supreme Court issued its decision in the case of Cadder v Her Majesty’s Advocate. The case considered the law and practice in Scotland of interviewing detained persons in a police station without ensuring that they had access to legal advice. The UK Supreme Court judgment overturned a previous unanimous ruling of the High Court of Justiciary in 2009 by seven of our most senior judges, including the Lord Justice General and the Lord Justice Clerk. The High Court of Justiciary had previously and repeatedly upheld the Scottish law, which was introduced by a Westminster Government in 1980 and which had not been altered by subsequent Administrations there or in this Parliament.
Throughout the process, the Scottish Government, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and the police have acted to minimise the impact of a possible adverse decision by the UK Supreme Court. The Lord Advocate issued guidance to police in June 2010 in the wake of the UK Supreme Court hearing in the Cadder case. That precautionary measure was taken when it became clear that the UK Supreme Court was considering overturning previous judgments of the Scottish courts. That was the first point at which there was any clear indication from the courts that the Scottish system might be ruled not to be compliant with the European convention on human rights.
On the very same day as the judgment of the UK Supreme Court was issued, I introduced proposed emergency legislation to ensure the continued viability of Scotland’s criminal justice system and announced a judicially led review of the law and criminal procedure in Scotland. That review, led by Lord Carloway, is well under way.
The emergency legislation—the Criminal Procedure (Legal Assistance, Detention and Appeals) (Scotland) Act 2010—was introduced as a bill following significant cross-party consultation and was passed with the support of the vast majority of members the following day. The act was necessary for three reasons. First, it enshrined in statute a suspect’s right of access to legal advice before and during interrogation. Our law now implements the court’s decision and that important right is articulated in statute, rather that in guidance from the Lord Advocate, which does not have the same force. Secondly, the act extends powers of detention to ensure that we maintain an effective system for investigating and prosecuting crime in the new environment. Thirdly, the act reinforces the need for finality and certainty in concluded cases, as articulated by the United Kingdom Supreme Court.
The UK Supreme Court decision emphasised the importance of finality and legal certainty in concluded criminal cases, but it affected cases in which an appeal had been made timeously or in which the relevant point had been taken during a case that was still live. The Government could not limit that through legislation. At the time of the judgment, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal service indicated that up to 3,500 live cases could be affected. The Crown Office has been working hard to find other ways in which to support cases that are affected by the ruling, such as looking at alternative sources of evidence.
Those actions, and the contingency measures that were taken previously, have been effective in that they have dramatically reduced to 867 the number of cases that are unable to proceed. That represents less than one quarter of the cases that were originally feared to be affected and a tiny percentage of the cases that our courts process each year.
In some solemn cases, the Crown has decided to discontinue proceedings in the meantime. Those cases are not closed and proceedings may be raised should additional evidence come to light in future.
I am acutely aware that that will be cold comfort to the victims, relatives and witnesses who are involved in the cases affected and I am particularly conscious that among those cases are some related to serious offences. I have no doubt that the victims will find it hard to understand how a case involving the very different Turkish justice system has had such a dramatic effect on Scots law, which already had strong protections for suspects through corroboration and the right to silence.
The loss of any proceedings on Cadder grounds is a matter of regret. However, I believe that the strong action that the Government has taken in the wake of the Cadder judgment means that we can maintain an effective system for the prosecution and investigation of crime and avoid many more victims being denied justice.
It remains a fact, however, that a court from beyond Scotland has imposed this change on us in a way that affects live cases. Scotland is uniquely susceptible to the effect of European convention on human rights challenges in criminal cases, because we are subject to the Human Rights Act 1998 and the effects of section 57(2) of the Scotland Act 1998.
Scotland does not have direct access to the European Court of Human Rights to defend its laws in the way that other criminal jurisdictions have. That is an anomaly that should be rectified, but that requires legislation on the part of Westminster. Traditionally, in criminal matters, the High Court of Justiciary had the final say, but the route of raising devolution issues that is concerned today is undermining its final authority. The UK Supreme Court has taken on a much greater role in criminal matters than was anticipated at the time of devolution. The Government’s view is that the centuries-old supremacy of the High Court of Justiciary as the final court of appeal in criminal matters must be restored.
As a matter of principle, I want to ensure that Scotland is in no worse a position than other jurisdictions in the UK and Europe, but this is a reserved issue that can be dealt with only at Westminster. The Advocate General has proposed changes for inclusion in the Scotland Bill, but they could make the situation worse. On 8 February, the Lord Advocate said to the Scotland Bill Committee:
“There is a real danger that we will have … a complete loss of identity for Scots law, unless the Supreme Court process is genuinely rarely exercised”.—[Official Report, Scotland Bill Committee, 8 February 2011; c 480.]
Within the constitutional framework that is afforded to us at this time, the Lord Advocate has been compelled to seek clarity from the UK Supreme Court on Cadder-related questions that have been raised in a number of criminal cases. She has asked the High Court of Justiciary to refer a further five cases to the UK Supreme Court for definitive resolution on a number of Cadder-related issues. That is necessary to minimise the uncertainty related to those further points.
In the period until those issues are resolved, we will continue to take action. The Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland has issued guidance to forces on issues surrounding interviews at the locus as an interim measure until the law is clarified, and I know that those issues are also being considered by Lord Carloway.
It is expected that the court will consider these cases later this year and we will work closely with the Crown to ensure that it has any assistance that it requires. I stress at this point, however, that the issues are narrower than those in the Cadder judgment and are expected to affect a much smaller proportion of cases.
In the run-up to the decision of the UK Supreme Court, I sought to involve members on all sides in setting out the situation that we faced and the impact that it would have, and to engage as openly as possible in exploring how we would seek to minimise the effects of the decision.
The vast majority of the chamber supported our aims and our plans, and I hope that we can continue in that spirit, to preserve Scots law and protect our communities.
Throughout the process, the Scottish Government, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and the police have acted to minimise the impact of a possible adverse decision by the UK Supreme Court. The Lord Advocate issued guidance to police in June 2010 in the wake of the UK Supreme Court hearing in the Cadder case. That precautionary measure was taken when it became clear that the UK Supreme Court was considering overturning previous judgments of the Scottish courts. That was the first point at which there was any clear indication from the courts that the Scottish system might be ruled not to be compliant with the European convention on human rights.
On the very same day as the judgment of the UK Supreme Court was issued, I introduced proposed emergency legislation to ensure the continued viability of Scotland’s criminal justice system and announced a judicially led review of the law and criminal procedure in Scotland. That review, led by Lord Carloway, is well under way.
The emergency legislation—the Criminal Procedure (Legal Assistance, Detention and Appeals) (Scotland) Act 2010—was introduced as a bill following significant cross-party consultation and was passed with the support of the vast majority of members the following day. The act was necessary for three reasons. First, it enshrined in statute a suspect’s right of access to legal advice before and during interrogation. Our law now implements the court’s decision and that important right is articulated in statute, rather that in guidance from the Lord Advocate, which does not have the same force. Secondly, the act extends powers of detention to ensure that we maintain an effective system for investigating and prosecuting crime in the new environment. Thirdly, the act reinforces the need for finality and certainty in concluded cases, as articulated by the United Kingdom Supreme Court.
The UK Supreme Court decision emphasised the importance of finality and legal certainty in concluded criminal cases, but it affected cases in which an appeal had been made timeously or in which the relevant point had been taken during a case that was still live. The Government could not limit that through legislation. At the time of the judgment, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal service indicated that up to 3,500 live cases could be affected. The Crown Office has been working hard to find other ways in which to support cases that are affected by the ruling, such as looking at alternative sources of evidence.
Those actions, and the contingency measures that were taken previously, have been effective in that they have dramatically reduced to 867 the number of cases that are unable to proceed. That represents less than one quarter of the cases that were originally feared to be affected and a tiny percentage of the cases that our courts process each year.
In some solemn cases, the Crown has decided to discontinue proceedings in the meantime. Those cases are not closed and proceedings may be raised should additional evidence come to light in future.
I am acutely aware that that will be cold comfort to the victims, relatives and witnesses who are involved in the cases affected and I am particularly conscious that among those cases are some related to serious offences. I have no doubt that the victims will find it hard to understand how a case involving the very different Turkish justice system has had such a dramatic effect on Scots law, which already had strong protections for suspects through corroboration and the right to silence.
The loss of any proceedings on Cadder grounds is a matter of regret. However, I believe that the strong action that the Government has taken in the wake of the Cadder judgment means that we can maintain an effective system for the prosecution and investigation of crime and avoid many more victims being denied justice.
It remains a fact, however, that a court from beyond Scotland has imposed this change on us in a way that affects live cases. Scotland is uniquely susceptible to the effect of European convention on human rights challenges in criminal cases, because we are subject to the Human Rights Act 1998 and the effects of section 57(2) of the Scotland Act 1998.
Scotland does not have direct access to the European Court of Human Rights to defend its laws in the way that other criminal jurisdictions have. That is an anomaly that should be rectified, but that requires legislation on the part of Westminster. Traditionally, in criminal matters, the High Court of Justiciary had the final say, but the route of raising devolution issues that is concerned today is undermining its final authority. The UK Supreme Court has taken on a much greater role in criminal matters than was anticipated at the time of devolution. The Government’s view is that the centuries-old supremacy of the High Court of Justiciary as the final court of appeal in criminal matters must be restored.
As a matter of principle, I want to ensure that Scotland is in no worse a position than other jurisdictions in the UK and Europe, but this is a reserved issue that can be dealt with only at Westminster. The Advocate General has proposed changes for inclusion in the Scotland Bill, but they could make the situation worse. On 8 February, the Lord Advocate said to the Scotland Bill Committee:
“There is a real danger that we will have … a complete loss of identity for Scots law, unless the Supreme Court process is genuinely rarely exercised”.—[Official Report, Scotland Bill Committee, 8 February 2011; c 480.]
Within the constitutional framework that is afforded to us at this time, the Lord Advocate has been compelled to seek clarity from the UK Supreme Court on Cadder-related questions that have been raised in a number of criminal cases. She has asked the High Court of Justiciary to refer a further five cases to the UK Supreme Court for definitive resolution on a number of Cadder-related issues. That is necessary to minimise the uncertainty related to those further points.
In the period until those issues are resolved, we will continue to take action. The Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland has issued guidance to forces on issues surrounding interviews at the locus as an interim measure until the law is clarified, and I know that those issues are also being considered by Lord Carloway.
It is expected that the court will consider these cases later this year and we will work closely with the Crown to ensure that it has any assistance that it requires. I stress at this point, however, that the issues are narrower than those in the Cadder judgment and are expected to affect a much smaller proportion of cases.
In the run-up to the decision of the UK Supreme Court, I sought to involve members on all sides in setting out the situation that we faced and the impact that it would have, and to engage as openly as possible in exploring how we would seek to minimise the effects of the decision.
The vast majority of the chamber supported our aims and our plans, and I hope that we can continue in that spirit, to preserve Scots law and protect our communities.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a statement by Kenny MacAskill on the Cadder judgment. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement, so...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
On 26 October 2010, the United Kingdom Supreme Court issued its decision in the case of Cadder v Her Majesty’s Advocate. The case considered the law and prac...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for his statement. We are now beginning to have a clearer understanding of the impact of the Cadder judgment on hundreds of vic...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Richard Baker raises a variety of issues. First, with regard to the Glasgow Bar Association, I would not seek to be too hard on an agency of which I was once...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman)
Lab
Some members have not pressed their request-to-speak buttons—I remind them to do so now. I ask for short questions and shorter answers from the cabinet secre...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for the advance copy of his statement. It is clear that the Cadder judgment is having a devastating effect on the Scottish just...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I have had meetings with Ken Clarke. A variety of issues is involved. We as a Government accept that Scotland is in an anomalous position in relation not sim...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
If 867 cases—some of which are very serious—cannot be prosecuted, that is a great public concern. However, the cabinet secretary seems to be in denial about ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Robert Brown raises three matters. Given the unique position of Scotland’s law, it is manifestly wrong that the Scottish Government does not have even the ri...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We move to open questions. Members will have to put a question, not a preamble and a question.
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Does the cabinet secretary share my view that, if we are to protect Scottish jurisprudence, we need to have decisions that are made by Scottish judges in Sco...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Absolutely. As I mentioned, the clear fact is that the UK Supreme Court is getting by the back door matters relating to the criminal law of Scotland that it ...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
When we passed the emergency legislation in October, the financial memorandum set out that the bill would cost £30 million and require 500 police officers to...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The principal point relates to money. As we made clear at the time, the increased costs to the legal aid budget would not come out of budgets such as health ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
How many suspects have been detained for 12 or 24 hours under the new powers of detention that the cabinet secretary forced through Parliament last year with...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I do not have the precise number, but the number of people who have been detained beyond the 12 hours has been very few. As Mr Rumbles well knows, these matt...
Mike Rumbles
LD
How many?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Recently, I received a letter from the United Kingdom Government, in which the Liberal Democrats are a partner, that asked the Scottish Government to make le...
Mike Rumbles
LD
He has not got a clue.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Mr Rumbles.
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
We will accede to the request of the Government south of the border. If Mr Rumbles disagrees with that, he should take up the matter with his ministerial col...
Mike Rumbles
LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I asked a simple, factual question on how many people had been detained. The minister refuses to answer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
That is not a point of order, Mr Rumbles. If you read the Official Report, you will find that the minister first said that he did not have the numbers.
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the cabinet secretary put into context the impact of the Cadder decision on the 867 cases? He said that we are talking about a relatively small percenta...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Because of the prescient actions by the Lord Advocate, the numbers were restricted initially, it was thought, to 3,500 and then to 867. That is a very small ...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary has advised us that the number of cases unable to proceed stands at 867—867 cases in which charges have been dropped, some very serious...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The answer is that I cannot provide that information. That is information relative only to the Crown. I have no doubt that the Crown would be more than happy...
Dave Thompson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
If as a result of Cadder the police cannot ask simple questions at the locus of an incident, is the cabinet secretary not concerned that they will have to ta...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
That is a valid point and it is part of the reason why the Lord Advocate has acted appropriately and sought to have these son of Cadder matters removed. As a...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab)
Lab
When Parliament passed the emergency legislation after the Cadder judgment, the cabinet secretary quite rightly said that he would keep Parliament fully info...