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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2011

17 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Services Regulation
Whitton, David Lab Strathkelvin and Bearsden Watch on SPTV
I speak in support of the Labour motion. For the benefit of Mr Stevenson, who has now brought his bus pass back among us, the motion does not say that we intend to renationalise bus services; it says that we need

“legislation to regulate bus services in the best interests of the travelling public.”

It is clear that his party’s major donor is not all that interested in that.

As we all know, in the current climate bus operators are struggling with rising fuel costs, increased wage costs, the dire state of our roads and traffic congestion. Scottish Association for Public Transport research shows that buses are finding it hard to attract users from the 69 per cent of households in Scotland that have at least one car. It is even more difficult for them to do so from households that have two or more cars, the proportion of which rose from 18.6 per cent in 2000 to 25.6 per cent in 2009. I have no doubt that Mr Carlaw, in his previous incarnation, would have welcomed that.

Buses often appear to be more costly, slower, less comfortable and less instantly available than the car, but local buses remain the most used form of public transport in Scotland, with an average of almost 100 trips per person being made on them each year. In the three years from 2004 to 2007, the number of passenger trips increased by 10 per cent, but in the four years since then the number has again declined. I could say that that is because of four years of SNP government, but that would be unkind.

If I take the experience of my constituency of Strathkelvin and Bearsden, it is easy to see why that has happened. Constant changes to the timetable, a focus on peak-time travel rather than off-peak travel and an all-too-quick desire to axe what are deemed to be loss-making routes have left many of my constituents without a convenient bus service, especially those who live out in the villages of Torrance, Lennoxtown, Milton of Campsie and Twechar. The further reaches of Bearsden, Lenzie and Bishopbriggs have also suffered. We all know that efficiency savings are needed, but Government and local authority spending cuts could have a devastating effect on our bus services. Throughout Scotland, lifeline bus services are being axed by operators and local authorities as they try to manage damaging funding cuts.

In December last year, the bus operators were dealt another unexpected blow. At a meeting of the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee, discussions took place with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, John Swinney, on issues such as concessionary travel and the bus service operators grant, which Keith Brown mentioned earlier.

When Mr Swinney was questioned by my colleague Charlie Gordon, he quoted a figure of £185 million for concessionary travel, which seemed to be £5 million above the original cap that he had told the committee about in a previous evidence session, although it seems that the £5 million might be for the youth concessionary travel scheme, the ferry scheme and administration.

The figure for the bus service operators grant appears in the budget as £60.8 million, which is a drop of £5.7 million from the figure of £66.5 million that Mr Swinney had earlier given the committee. In the Official Report of 18 March 2010, the cabinet secretary said that he would

“increase the funding for the BSOG to £66.5 million a year.”—[Official Report, 18 March 2010; c 24723.]

I am not for a minute suggesting that Mr Swinney has a problem with his sums, but when he said that

“The sums on concessionary fares and the bus service operators grant that appeared in the budget are the sums that were negotiated with the bus operators as part of the Government’s approach to providing the necessary financial control that we would expect over the concessionary travel scheme”—[Official Report, Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee, 7 December 2010; c 3498.]

he does not appear to have been reading from the same page as the Confederation of Passenger Transport, which had negotiated with him.

The CPT is adamant that that was not the case. Its members say:

“The budget figure for BSOG states £60.8m. The three year deal that CPT entered into with Scottish Government earlier this year was for a BSOG budget line of £66.5m. This is a £5.7m reduction on what the Scottish bus industry and Scottish Government agreed to.”

In reply to that, Mr Swinney asserted that his figures were correct. The CPT said again that when he said that the budget contains figures that reflect what he agreed with the bus industry:

“we believe Mr Swinney failed to clarify accurately in his responses ... That is patently not the case.”

They cannot both be right.

Indeed, the CPT argues that if it had known that there was to be a £5.7 million cut to the operators grant, the deal to reduce the national concessionary transport scheme from 73.6 per cent to 67 per cent would not have happened. That has taken millions out of the bus industry.

We need the bus service operators grant. Replacing the fuel duty rebate, it allows commercial and community bus operators to receive a grant based on the eligible kilometres that they operate on registered local bus services. The grant’s principal aim is to benefit passengers, which it does by helping operators to keep their fares down and to run services that might not otherwise be commercially viable, thereby contributing to the maintenance of the overall bus network.

It also contributes to the operation of community transport organisations, which allow people who cannot make use of conventional bus services to access local services such as those in the villages in my constituency. Payments to operators are calculated on the eligible kilometres that are run on local bus services, the total volume of fuel that is used and a predetermined payment rate—currently 41.2p per litre—that is set by Transport Scotland.

One other issue seems to have appeared from out of nowhere in the transport arena. Mr Swinney announced a significant increase of £7 million for the smart card programme. As Charlie Gordon inquired at the time, given that the bedding-in of the new ticketing machines for bus operators was completed by August, what was the proposed £7 million of new capital expenditure for? Mr Swinney replied that it related to software upgrades to ensure the operability of the smart concessionary travel scheme, and said that it was something that he could have done without.

We know that Mr Swinney has had problems coping with computer upgrades in the past, but the question remains: why did he not know that this one was happening? I would like to know, if Parliament agrees to that item for next year, how many years it will be before we are asked to endorse something similar.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson) NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a Labour Party debate on motion S3M-8177, in the name of Charlie Gordon, on transport.09:15
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab) Lab
Our previous full-scale debate on local bus services was way back on 12 June 2008. That is not to say that Labour has not campaigned relentlessly before and ...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD) LD
I am intrigued by Charlie Gordon’s direction of travel. He complains about market failure, but he seems to be suggesting that he is looking for market monopo...
Charlie Gordon Lab
Not for the first time, Mr Brown is wrong. If he listens for a bit longer, he will learn.The traffic commissioner continued:“Thus, Edinburgh has Lothian Bus ...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Charlie Gordon Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time: maybe later. I pressed Mr Swinney at that meeting by asking:“Are you now saying that the deal that was done”—that was the...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown) SNP
Today’s debate provides a timely opportunity to discuss the bus industry, assess its current status and consider what improvements can be made to ensure the ...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab) Lab
What?
Keith Brown SNP
It is on record.Earlier this year, we agreed changes to the reimbursement rate with the Confederation of Passenger Transport that make the scheme more sustai...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con) Con
I was intrigued when news filtered out that Labour was to set aside the whole of this morning’s debate—the last major debate of this parliamentary session—fo...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw Con
I do not think that I will, today.Scotland’s bus industry is an important private sector contributor to our gross domestic product at a time when there is ar...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
As Jackson Carlaw said, we have been here before. It is a bit like groundhog day.Charlie Gordon has revisited a proposal that he knows has no majority suppor...
Keith Brown SNP
Does Alison McInnes acknowledge that the bus route development scheme was not abolished, but was given to local authorities and mainstreamed into their funding?
Alison McInnes LD
It has been disaggregated to the point at which it is of little value to anyone. It is not enough to roll out new services and it has not been used in that w...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab) Lab
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his comments, as I have seldom had so many compliments in one speech. However, for the record, I am more of a Cliff Richard girl t...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP) SNP
Let me declare a personal interest in the debate: I am a bus card holder. I note that the only bus card holders who are likely to participate in the debate a...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab) Lab
The issue of transport, and in particular buses, is extremely important to people in my constituency and in similar communities throughout Scotland that rely...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Will Elaine Smith take an intervention?
Elaine Smith Lab
No, thank you—Stewart Stevenson had the opportunity as a minister to put guards on the trains.In a transport debate, I cannot miss the opportunity to mention...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan) SNP
Order. I hope that Elaine Smith will return to buses, which seem to me to be the subject of the motion.
Elaine Smith Lab
I certainly will, but we need to consider transport in the round to see how important buses are.The number of trains from Coatbridge to Edinburgh on the new ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
For the avoidance of doubt, the question of bus regulation was not ever in the SNP manifesto.In the debate, we are trying to look forward to find ways to ens...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Charlie Gordon for focusing on bus travel in the last party debate before the election. However, as I said in an intervention, there is a co...
Charlie Gordon Lab
I cited the transport commissioner, who described most of the bus scene in Scotland as a monopoly and near-monopoly city and county arrangement. Does the mem...
Robert Brown LD
No, I am trying to put the issue into context and to explain the deficiency at the heart of the member’s proposition.I will say a little more about Glasgow. ...
Keith Brown SNP
Could Robert Brown explain how his party’s policy of doing away with concessionary travel support will help more women to use the buses?
Robert Brown LD
Perhaps the minister should read the policy. We have certainly said that there is a need to consider whether people such as me are entitled—as Stewart Steven...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab) Lab
A fortnight ago, we had a by-election in Clydebank—in the Duntocher, Faifley and Hardgate ward. The key issue in that by-election was buses, specifically the...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
I declare that I am president of the Scottish Association for Public Transport, which has provided a memo for members setting out a useful range of pragmatic...